The bench-strength discussion - Does Pakistan have one?


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  1. #1
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    The bench-strength discussion - Does Pakistan have one?

    Now Wahab struggling with injuries - unfortunate but true - so do we have the proverbial "bench strength" to counter this?

    Or are selectors stabbing in the dark when picking replacements?


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  2. #2
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    I don't really care about ODIs except at the World Cup, so I'll limit my answer to Test cricket.


    1. OPENING BATSMEN
    Established - none
    In weak possession - Ahmed Shehzad, Mohammad Hafeez
    Strong reserves - Shan Masood, Salman Butt

    2. MIDDLE ORDER BATSMEN
    Established - Azhar Ali, Younis Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq, Asad Shafiq
    Bench strength - Babar Azam, Umar Akmal, Mohammad Rizwan, Haris Sohail

    3. WICKETKEEPERS
    Established - Sarfraz Ahmed
    Bench strength - Mohammad Rizwan

    4. SPIN BOWLERS
    Established - Yasir Shah
    Bench strength - Saeed Ajmal short-term, Zulfiqar Babar short-term
    Up and coming - Karamat Ali, Zafar Gohar

    5. LEFT-ARM QUICKS
    Established - Wahab Riaz, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Amir
    Failing bench strength - Junaid Khan
    Figment of dreamers' imagination - Sadaf Hussain

    6. RIGHT-ARM QUICKS
    Established - none
    Quality but rusty - Mohammad Asif
    Not yet really good enough - Ehsan Adil, Imran Khan

    That looks like a very, very strong stable of cricketers to me.

  3. #3
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    Butt as a strong reserve? Really?

  4. #4
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    We do have some good batsmen, but not bowlers. Which is the saddest part.


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  5. #5
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    After everything, you are still considering Muhammad Asif and Salman Butt.

  6. #6
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    We probably have replacement players, but like their predecessors they will learn on the job as they have not been groomed for it

  7. #7
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    Hold On . We do have talented worthy players but they are not the ones who have been developed and groomed as replacements since last year or two . Mainly lack of A tours .
    For wahab we don't have any left arm quick of his pace in pakistan . But we do have right arm quicks close to his pace .
    For hafeez our back up are imaad wasim , kamran ghulam.
    For zulfiqar Babar we have mohammad asghar.
    For yasir shah we have usama mir .
    For Ahmed Shehzad we have options such as umar siddique & nauman anwar in ODI's and in test cricket we have naeemuddin or imran butt .
    For anwar Ali we have Shehzad azam rana or amir yamin as Allrounders . Shehzad has improved his batting in last 6 months .
    Than we have quality taj wali and sadaf hussain(if he improves his fitness)
    For saeed Ajmal we have mohammad asif dera Ismail khan belonging offspinner .
    For younis & misbah in tests we have Harris sohail , umar Amin , Babar azam , usman salahuddin & fawad alam .
    Than we might I.A see mohammad asif & mohammad amir in 2016 .
    Wrt to subcontinent pitches , Zimbabwe , West Indies , UAE pitches ODI and T20 cricket we do not have ideal replacement of mohammad hafeez . Imaad wasim, kamran ghulam are good but not near to or as good as hafeez. That's a fact .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    We do have some good batsmen, but not bowlers. Which is the saddest part.
    It's high team that we graduate Shehzad azam rana & mir hamza to senior team now if selectors & management feel they are good enough or discard them from A team & discard zia ul haq and tabish khan from A team and give chances to taj wali , Ali imran pasha , Atif Jabbar , mohammad abbass & mohammad Ali in pakistan A squad . Groom them . The ones who seem ready and finished product throw them in the senior team .
    Rather than persisting with same bunch of players forever & crying that we don't have talent we don't have replacements .
    Replacements are always made or developed unless they are exceptionally talented players like wasim , waqar , zahid , shoaib , asif , amir .
    We cry and cry about trundles trundles . Yet we have 7,8 bowlers in our donesti cricket who have ability to bowl 140 plus consistently with 3 to 4 among them having capability to ball between 145 to 148 as well .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    It's high team that we graduate Shehzad azam rana & mir hamza to senior team now if selectors & management feel they are good enough or discard them from A team & discard zia ul haq and tabish khan from A team and give chances to taj wali , Ali imran pasha , Atif Jabbar , mohammad abbass & mohammad Ali in pakistan A squad . Groom them . The ones who seem ready and finished product throw them in the senior team .
    Rather than persisting with same bunch of players forever & crying that we don't have talent we don't have replacements .
    Replacements are always made or developed unless they are exceptionally talented players like wasim , waqar , zahid , shoaib , asif , amir .
    We cry and cry about trundles trundles . Yet we have 7,8 bowlers in our donesti cricket who have ability to bowl 140 plus consistently with 3 to 4 among them having capability to ball between 145 to 148 as well .
    I now we are having good bowlers in domestic. But the main problem is, they are not even on the radar of our Selectors. I was pointing towards this.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    I now we are having good bowlers in domestic. But the main problem is, they are not even on the radar of our Selectors. I was pointing towards this.
    You are absolutely right . When I was saying people crying I was referring to people generally . It's a fact whatever he have in our domestic we have not developed them . And yes sadly only those get on selectors radar who flourish infront of tv cameras . You are right much of the bowlers I point out are not on selectors radar . And we are worst at grooming players & developing substitutes for future .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    You are absolutely right . When I was saying people crying I was referring to people generally . It's a fact whatever he have in our domestic we have not developed them . And yes sadly only those get on selectors radar who flourish infront of tv cameras . You are right much of the bowlers I point out are not on selectors radar . And we are worst at grooming players & developing substitutes for future .
    Look now, Wahab is unfit. So who is gonna replace him? Same old names like Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Sohail Tanveer, Ehsan Adil ( well he have some future ahead of him ). Mir, Taj, Shehzad, Zia, when they will get chance?
    Look at England, they are giving chance to newbie in the most important series of their careers. Same case with Australia, Nz, and even Bangladesh. But our selectors?


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    Look now, Wahab is unfit. So who is gonna replace him? Same old names like Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Sohail Tanveer, Ehsan Adil ( well he have some future ahead of him ). Mir, Taj, Shehzad, Zia, when they will get chance?
    Look at England, they are giving chance to newbie in the most important series of their careers. Same case with Australia, Nz, and even Bangladesh. But our selectors?
    I give you an example which no-one here at PP gave .
    Look at Bangladesh , they are even more crazy cricket nation than us . There players have even more pressure of their public .
    They gave chance to an opener who had an average of 20 in list A and an average of 25 in FC cricket .
    Can you imagine pakistani selectors giving chance to such a player ? And what would be the reaction of public & ppers in pakistan ? They will say he is ****** and all that . Yet their selectors figured something in him despite having such a poor domestic record in all forms FC , list A , T20 but some one had the eye to pick him and look how that soumya sarkar is performing now
    There is a batsman named Agha Salman in pakistan who has striking similarity in his batting approach stance and shots with legendary mohammad yousuf . Does anybody take his name here or in media or in social media ? No
    He got out on a duck in champions league match so everybody thinks that he is no good just on the base of one match .
    I hope somebody who matters in pakistan Cricket is ghalti se reading it.

  13. #13
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    Bowling is getting worrying in-terms of replacements, but batting is looking great.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 786pk View Post
    After everything, you are still considering Muhammad Asif and Salman Butt.
    Of course.

    Their punishments are complete just 44 days from now.

    In other words, Salman Butt will be available for selection just as soon as his best friend, Wahab Riaz.

    And considering how hopeless Shehzad and Hafeez are with the bat, it can't happen soon enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I don't really care about ODIs except at the World Cup, so I'll limit my answer to Test cricket.


    1. OPENING BATSMEN
    Established - none
    In weak possession - Ahmed Shehzad, Mohammad Hafeez
    Strong reserves - Shan Masood, Salman Butt

    2. MIDDLE ORDER BATSMEN
    Established - Azhar Ali, Younis Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq, Asad Shafiq
    Bench strength - Babar Azam, Umar Akmal, Mohammad Rizwan, Haris Sohail

    3. WICKETKEEPERS
    Established - Sarfraz Ahmed
    Bench strength - Mohammad Rizwan

    4. SPIN BOWLERS
    Established - Yasir Shah
    Bench strength - Saeed Ajmal short-term, Zulfiqar Babar short-term
    Up and coming - Karamat Ali, Zafar Gohar

    5. LEFT-ARM QUICKS
    Established - Wahab Riaz, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Amir
    Failing bench strength - Junaid Khan
    Figment of dreamers' imagination - Sadaf Hussain

    6. RIGHT-ARM QUICKS
    Established - none
    Quality but rusty - Mohammad Asif
    Not yet really good enough - Ehsan Adil, Imran Khan

    That looks like a very, very strong stable of cricketers to me.
    This is a good list and you make some good points but I still think having the name of butt and asif is premature at this stage. It's no guarantee that they will be selected even after their ban ends. We will see in 44 days time.

    As always with Pakistan the difficulty is in bringing rookies who outclass peers at domestic level up to international competitive standards where they can perform in all kinds of conditions and against all kinds of attacks. bench strength has to be battle hardened which ours ain't. Ehsan adil and Shan for instance could do with more exposure.

  16. #16
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    Old thread but same issues.

    Ok like everyone else, am very excited about the amount of cricket coming up before the T20 World Cup but am also concerned that given our lack of good bench strength or back up, what happens if we have injuries to our front line bowlers?


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Old thread but same issues.

    Ok like everyone else, am very excited about the amount of cricket coming up before the T20 World Cup but am also concerned that given our lack of good bench strength or back up, what happens if we have injuries to our front line bowlers?
    What frontline bowlers? The only bowler we have who is capable of achieving anything in Australia is Shaheen. In general we are a 3 man team in LOI's. Whether we play our first team or the 'bench' it makes little difference outside of our main 3 players.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    What frontline bowlers? The only bowler we have who is capable of achieving anything in Australia is Shaheen. In general we are a 3 man team in LOI's. Whether we play our first team or the 'bench' it makes little difference outside of our main 3 players.
    But if Shaheen breaks down due to so many games, we've had it


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  19. #19
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    Pakistan does have a bench. No one is sitting on it.

  20. #20
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    Rizwan was bench for most part of his career.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Rizwan was bench for most part of his career.
    Not sure about the relevance.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    But if Shaheen breaks down due to so many games, we've had it
    Dahani should replace Shaheen if that does happen.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    What frontline bowlers? The only bowler we have who is capable of achieving anything in Australia is Shaheen. In general we are a 3 man team in LOI's. Whether we play our first team or the 'bench' it makes little difference outside of our main 3 players.
    Dahani with his height and pace will be very useful in Australia.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Dahani should replace Shaheen if that does happen.
    Dahani shouldn't be a replacement. He should be a lock in the white ball teams now.

  25. #25
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    Pakistan's bench strength in terms of pace bowlers is probably the best in the world .


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Pakistan's bench strength in terms of pace bowlers is probably the best in the world .
    Please back this up, because that is a ridiculous statement in my view.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    Dahani shouldn't be a replacement. He should be a lock in the white ball teams now.
    I agree to some extended as a third seemer opening bowlers should be naseem and Shaheen.

  28. #28
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    The biggest issue for Pakistan is that their main players basically play all series, even if it is versus associate nations. The team management need to take a risk and rest few key players to try out young ones to develop bench. Pakistan haven't done that. India were not doing that as well but have started doing it in recent times which means that young players can be tested out. No point in playing Babar or Rizwan or Shaheen in series against Ireland etc or when playing at home against weaker teams like Zimbabwe.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    The biggest issue for Pakistan is that their main players basically play all series, even if it is versus associate nations. The team management need to take a risk and rest few key players to try out young ones to develop bench. Pakistan haven't done that. India were not doing that as well but have started doing it in recent times which means that young players can be tested out. No point in playing Babar or Rizwan or Shaheen in series against Ireland etc or when playing at home against weaker teams like Zimbabwe.
    Babar scored a Century at home and lost to Zimbabwe albeit via super over. The journalists in Pakistan have a lot bias and they go after players and selectors like vultures, including personal remarks like asking Md Wasim in his team selection announcement meeting that he is a laptop/MacBook based selector.
    They are just scared of such a criticism.


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Babar scored a Century at home and lost to Zimbabwe albeit via super over. The journalists in Pakistan have a lot bias and they go after players and selectors like vultures, including personal remarks like asking Md Wasim in his team selection announcement meeting that he is a laptop/MacBook based selector.
    They are just scared of such a criticism.
    If that is the case, Pakistan can never build a strong bench. Everytime few players retire, there will be a massive rebuilding process as you will have some new players coming into the team. The management should not care about losing some arbitrary series. India went with a B team to SL last year and lost the T20 series, no one cared about that series. By resting a few main players, for example rest Babar but play Rizwan, rest Shaheen but play whoever is your second best LO bowler. That's how you rotate players. If you keep playing the same squad for all games and series then you will never develop a good bench strength.

  31. #31
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    Our selectors don't believe in bench reserve/strength. Even we play against Germany, Romania or USA they will select full strength team. That's why our team will be always rebuilding and unpredictable team can never be top 3 team.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    Babar scored a Century at home and lost to Zimbabwe albeit via super over. The journalists in Pakistan have a lot bias and they go after players and selectors like vultures, including personal remarks like asking Md Wasim in his team selection announcement meeting that he is a laptop/MacBook based selector.
    They are just scared of such a criticism.
    Exactly!!! These so-called journalists are there to promote their favourites or region. They will never promote national team. Even we loose 5 tests in a row they will cry for Fawad/Sarfraz exclusion. Its easy to drop Babar/Rizwan than Fawad/Sarfraz/Azhar.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Please back this up, because that is a ridiculous statement in my view.
    How many countries have as many bowlers who can clock 140 +? Pakistan have Shaheen, Naseem, Haris , Hasan, Dahani, Dilbar, Hasnain, Musa, Mohammad Wasim and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure those who follow PSL can name a few more.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    If that is the case, Pakistan can never build a strong bench. Everytime few players retire, there will be a massive rebuilding process as you will have some new players coming into the team. The management should not care about losing some arbitrary series. India went with a B team to SL last year and lost the T20 series, no one cared about that series. By resting a few main players, for example rest Babar but play Rizwan, rest Shaheen but play whoever is your second best LO bowler. That's how you rotate players. If you keep playing the same squad for all games and series then you will never develop a good bench strength.
    To be honest Pakistan t20 and odi squad isn't that experienced.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    How many countries have as many bowlers who can clock 140 +? Pakistan have Shaheen, Naseem, Haris , Hasan, Dahani, Dilbar, Hasnain, Musa, Mohammad Wasim and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure those who follow PSL can name a few more.
    Zaman Khan,Akif Javed

  36. #36
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    Pakistan have good bench strength when it comes to LOI bowling. They have okay bench strength when it comes to LOI batting.

    However, they don't seem to have good bench strength in Test (bowling department particularly).


    Bangladeshi Guy

  37. #37
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    The bowling bench strength in limited-overs is wafer thin. Pakistan is heavily dependent on Shaheen and to a lesser extent, Rauf. Take those two out and you don't have a single fast-bowler with even 10 ODIs under his belt. Dahani needs to play as much as possible going forward. And Naseem and Wasim Jr. need to get some experience as well.

    One of the biggest problems for us at the last T20 WC was the lack of form Hasan Ali was in. But the team management was hesitant to replace him because it was a much bigger gamble to bring in someone like Wasim Jr with barely any match experience under their belt.

    The last thing we need is another situation like that. Which is why you need to have guys who can step in seamlessly on the drop of a hat.

    In the spin-bowling department Nawaz can be relied on. He is supremely fit and rarely gets injured. Not so sure about Shadab though who has had his issues with injuries recently. And the alternatives Zahid Mehmood and Usman Qadir are awful picks that most good teams would smash at 9+ RPO.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 6th August 2022 at 15:52.

  38. #38
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    Not much bench strength if I am being honest.

    Yes there are a few names in the white ball format but they are hardly world-beaters.

    In red ball cricket the situation is even worse.



  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Not much bench strength if I am being honest.

    Yes there are a few names in the white ball format but they are hardly world-beaters.

    In red ball cricket the situation is even worse.
    We ca never have bench strength because the senior bowlers are too scared to leave their post incase they cant get back in!


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  40. #40
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    Babar Azam ahead of the tour of Netherlands:

    "Our fast-bowling bench strength is excellent. They've now got an opportunity to showcase their skills. This is how you expand your pool."

    ==

    Good luck on that one Babar!


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  41. #41
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    Disappointed Haider isn't going to Netherlands.

    Anyway, we need to give Dahani, Naseem, Shafique, Agha games. Preferably all 3 games.

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