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  1. #1
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    "Australian fans dislike Virat Kohli as much they disliked Douglas Jardine" : Dean Jones

    By Dean Jones

    I am enjoying the rivalry – and the antagonism – that is going on in this series between India and Australia.

    For most of the 70 years of Test cricket played between Australia and India, the Australians have bullied India into submission. Over the past few years, India has bounced back with a vengeance and a big part of that change has been due to the new phenom of world cricket, Virat Kohli.

    He is critical to India's chances and the country's cricket-loving public would have held its collective breath when he hurt his shoulder on the opening day. And it was a bitter blow to the home team when play resumed on day two without their inspirational leader on the field.

    I am an unabashed Kohli fan. I commentate all around the world and I love watching this kid bat and lead his team. He is such an interesting character. Away from the cricket, he is quite a humble kid. Always polite, and always asking questions on how he is batting and what I am up to. He just loves the game and the challenges that go with it.

    Kohli is now Australia's No. 1 enemy or the "head of the snake", as Nathan Lyon has put it. The Australian boys are quite prepared to take it up to him and this series has been compulsive viewing. This is what Test match cricket is about. It's the same when we play England for the Ashes or when India meet Pakistan.

    Test cricket is at its best when there is an edge to it. With the extra interest from fans and the media in a big series such as this, the contest seems to have become personal, very personal.

    To understand Kohli's personality is to first understand where he comes from. Kohli is from Delhi, the cosmopolitan capital city of India. I have noticed a huge change in its youth since 1990. They are fast becoming the "go-getters" of the world, with a sense of brashness and aggression. They are a new generation who are quite aggressive in seeking their goals in life and not frightened to steamroll anyone who gets in their way. There is no greater example than Kohli, who happens to be the icon of this new Indian generation.

    In my opinion, he is the best batsmen in the world in all formats. He knows what he wants and will jump over or maul anyone who is in his way. You throw sand in his face, expect a tonne of it being thrown back!

    It's amazing how Kohli has transformed his game and his brand over the past few years. He knows how to antagonise, annoy and alienate opponents, and does it with consummate ease, and this new Indian generation is loving every bit of it.

    When Kohli was young, he idolised the way South Africa's Herschelle Gibbs played, with no fear. He also was in awe of the daring strokeplay of India's Yuvraj Singh. Once Yuvraj heard about Virat's adulation, he sent him some brand-new kits with bats, pads, boots and much more. Their friendship has been very close since.

    The Indian corporate world loves Kohli's style, attitude and aggression. Forbes India estimated he earns $27 million a year and he has more than 20 companies endorsing him. Kohli commands more than $600,000 for three days of appearances and more than $1.5 million an endorsement.

    He is very watchable on TV. "When Kohli is batting, the TV viewership goes up around 50-60 per cent and when he gets out, many do turn off the TV," says Sanjog Gupta, the senior vice-president of Star Sports. "He is very much watched, similar to Sachin Tendulkar."

    Kohli is widely expected to become the first cricketer to enter the top 10 Forbes list of the world's highest-paid athletes. He is already 119th in Twitter with more than 14 million followers and has received more than 35 million "likes" on Facebook.

    Kohli believes in hard work and that he can do anything on a cricket field. He loves getting into hot spots on the field to make sure he is in his opponents' face. Kohli is the only captain I know who pumps up the crowd, asking them for their support. He knows the importance of the Indian fans' input and how it can help his team's performance. He doesn't just want 11 Indian players in the Australian faces, he demands the same from the 30,000-strong Indian crowds. Make this ground the most hostile environment the Australians will experience. It's no different to what the MCG crowds have given to opposition teams.

    So why don't Australian fans like him? I feel he is almost as disliked as villainous English captain Douglas Jardine, who started the Bodyline series in 1932-33. Is this what needs to happen for Australia and India to build up their rivalry? If so, I have no problem with it. I love the aggression that's being produced in the media and from the fans. Even the respective CEOs from each country have offered their 10 cents' worth. It's game on.

    There is no doubt Kohli's self-assuredness sits well with the BCCI board and their coach Anil Kumble. They are encouraging him to continue with his "in-your-face" attitude. Maybe Australian fans don't like the way Kohli nonchalantly walks over and eyeballs the Australian captain. But perhaps responding to these tactics from Kohli will bring the best out of Steve Smith's captaincy. Let's hope so.

    Kohli's approach reminds me a lot of Vivian Richards when he took over from Clive Lloyd. Australian fans were quite happy with the aggressive way that Richards captained his West Indian team, but not so much with the way Kohli captains his team. Do they not respect him the same way we respected Viv? Surely, Virat has got enough runs on the board now to get that respect?

    Well, all I can say is to beat the Indians is to beat them at their own game. Don't worry about what type of pitch they put up, as they have to play on it too. Remember Pune? We proved to ourselves that Australia can be competitive in the "final frontier", as Steve Waugh put it a few years ago.

    I say enjoy the challenge. Enjoy the silence of the Indian crowd when you are on top. If Kohli gets under your skin, don't look at him. Turn your back or offer the cheeky smile that Sir Donald Bradman offered Jardine. Whichever way this series finishes, it will be remembered for a long time. That's how it should be and that's why Test cricket will always be above all other formats of the game.

    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/...14-guy99n.html


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  2. #2
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    For most of the 70 years of Test cricket played between Australia and India, the Australians have bullied India into submission. Over the past few years, India has bounced back with a vengeance and a big part of that change has been due to the new phenom of world cricket, Virat Kohli.
    I think most knowledgeable people can tell Jones that's to do with the self belief gained after Kolkata 01 rather than Kohli

    The amount of nonsense one writes to sell their columns

  3. #3
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    Not hard to dislike an arrogant person


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  4. #4
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    Why are they disliking him? He is not scoring runs currently. And no Virat Kohli has nothing to do with the vengeance. Credit goes to Ganguly for that.


    Tum mujhe bhaga sako aisa ho nahi sakta aur tum mere begair bhaago yeh main hone nahi dunga - Viru

  5. #5
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    No such thing as bad publicity for Kohli. I am sure he is fine with that.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  6. #6
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    My, my -- Kohli must be doing something right!

    People who were born yesterday think that the "edge" has come after Kohli started playing. As others have noted, Ganguly's team were super successful in getting under Steve Waugh's skin. India was the only team that competed with that all-conquering Australian side, the rest just caved in (except for one fluke Ashes series -- but even in those matches, England won only when McGrath didn't play -- he was ruled out due to injury.)

    As a player and captain, even Gavaskar didn't take nonsense from anyone. For example, in 1981 he asked his fellow opener Chetan Chauhan to leave the field when Gavaskar was given wrongly out by biased Aussie umpire. Gavaskar later regretted doing it, but it shows that he wasn't going to take BS from foul-mouthed Aussie goons.

  7. #7
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    Dean Jones is a charismatic guy, but as usual I think his analysis is wonky.

    The Indian team is clearly better today than Pakistan in every form of the game, and likely to stay there. Commercially it is even further ahead.

    And yet I would say that the Indian national team is around 25 years behind the Pakistan one in its development, even though it is superior! Let me explain....

    Pakistan took its place at the top table of world cricket in the period 1977-79 when Kerry Packer signed up most of the star players of just 4 countries: Australia, West Indies, South Africa and Pakistan. Yes, official cricket carried on. But the official game was a devalued, belittled joke. And when the Packer players were reintegrated, for the next dozen years the West Indies and Pakistan dominated Test cricket. At a time when only Test cricket counted, and ODIs were played in white clothes with a red ball.

    During this first period of major power for Pakistan, players like Javed Miandad and Saleem Yousaf exhibited the same brattish arrogance that India was later to display at Sydney in 2007-08. But whereas the leaders of the India team - notably Kumble and Tendulkar - bought in to the schoolboy tantrums and the posturing, Imran Khan stamped it out emphatically, notably with his on-field humiliation of Yousaf in 1987 when he tried to cheat Ian Botham of his wicket.

    So when Pakistan had its Monkeygate moment, Imran Khan taught them that you can fight hard without losing your Class and dignity. Whereas India chose at Sydney to follow the path of arrogance, bullying and obnoxiousness. Anil Kumble accused the team his players had racially abused of poor sportsmanship, which to us in Australia was perceived as like blaming a woman for being raped. And then he threatened to call off the tour.

    Of course Pakistan squandered the headstart in its development. Practically as soon as Imran Khan retired the team became riddled with corruption. And then the talent started to follow the wrong path as Shoaib Akhtar, Shahid Afridi, Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad, each of whom could have been world beaters, took the path of laziness and limited overs specialisation rather than working hard to have the careers they could have.

    Shoaib is a footnote of history who took 170 Test wickets instead of 400. Afridi scored less runs than Mitchell Johnson and took fewer wickets than Mark Waugh, let alone Steve Waugh.

    Virat Kohli is just a symptom of India's later development and of its decision to take the low road instead of the high road.

    Michelle Obama famously commented "when they go low, we go high". Not that that worked. India has just chosen to take the other road, and Kohli is their flag-bearer.

    And I must say, I don't really mind. I objected more to men I had previously respected joining the communal tantrum after Monkeygate. As far as I'm concerned, Virat Kohli is welcome here in Australia at any time. But if Anil Kumble walked down any street in the country, he'd need a bodyguard.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Not hard to dislike an arrogant person
    this. Kohli shows a lot of arrogance and aggressiveness and don't have the performance to back it up, he has failed miserably in this series, Aussies are laughing and making fun of kohli

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    this. Kohli shows a lot of arrogance and aggressiveness and don't have the performance to back it up, he has failed miserably in this series, Aussies are laughing and making fun of kohli
    You must not have been following him much then as he is only expressive on the field, constantly helps and praises youngsters like Amir, helps everyone off the field. What arrogance are you talking about? And even Bradman failed the odd series so big deal. Big hearted people are not fueled by petty jealousies and can see beyond the obvious and of course everyone admires a great player even if he had one off series


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    You must not have been following him much then as he is only expressive on the field, constantly helps and praises youngsters like Amir, helps everyone off the field. What arrogance are you talking about? And even Bradman failed the odd series so big deal. Big hearted people are not fueled by petty jealousies and can see beyond the obvious and of course everyone admires a great player even if he had one off series
    I must have hit a nerve there I can understand you're crying because Kohli is failing miserably, and it's not the 1st time. When did I say Kohli is not a great player? But Kohli is still not the best Test batsman of India, Pujara is.

    I was only talking about the current series, the sledging he does, and lack of sportsmanship he shows on the field to Aussies has backfired, now whole India is crying and defending Kohli because he's failing miserably.
    Last edited by Citizen4; 19th March 2017 at 06:26.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    I must have hit a nerve there I can understand you're crying because Kohli is failing miserably, and it's not the 1st time. When did I say Kohli is not a great player? But Kohli is still not the best Test batsman of India, Pujara is.

    I was only talking about the current series, the sledging he does, and lack of sportsmanship he shows on the field to Aussies has backfired, now whole India is crying and defending Kohli because he's failing miserably.
    I agree with kohli not being india's best test batsman but how is his sledging backfiring, since his accusations aussies reviews have been poor, not to forget he is doing what football managers like mourinho do, taking all the pressure on himself rather than the team, all his over the top antics, quotes etc let others shine without being in the spot light. I would like it more if he performs but india as a whole were never dependent on kohli to win in tests, it was always likes of rahane, vijay, bhuvi etc in overseas conditions and Che Pu, ashwin, jaddu in india and other spin friendly conditions, only place india really depended on kohli alone was australia nowhere else.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    I must have hit a nerve there I can understand you're crying because Kohli is failing miserably, and it's not the 1st time. When did I say Kohli is not a great player? But Kohli is still not the best Test batsman of India, Pujara is.

    I was only talking about the current series, the sledging he does, and lack of sportsmanship he shows on the field to Aussies has backfired, now whole India is crying and defending Kohli because he's failing miserably.
    i would like to see where pujara stands ..can you please post last 5 test series or any nmo of last test series stats of both pujara and kohli and then we can see who is better? i would love to compare that.......

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    i would like to see where pujara stands ..can you please post last 5 test series or any nmo of last test series stats of both pujara and kohli and then we can see who is better? i would love to compare that.......
    Do some work, want everything on a platter...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    i would like to see where pujara stands ..can you please post last 5 test series or any nmo of last test series stats of both pujara and kohli and then we can see who is better? i would love to compare that.......
    go ahead and check the record of last few years on statsguru, you'll only embarass yourself because Pujara has been better, few double tons in friendly conditions doesn't change that

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    I must have hit a nerve there I can understand you're crying because Kohli is failing miserably, and it's not the 1st time. When did I say Kohli is not a great player? But Kohli is still not the best Test batsman of India, Pujara is.

    I was only talking about the current series, the sledging he does, and lack of sportsmanship he shows on the field to Aussies has backfired, now whole India is crying and defending Kohli because he's failing miserably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    go ahead and check the record of last few years on statsguru, you'll only embarass yourself because Pujara has been better, few double tons in friendly conditions doesn't change that
    What decides its friends conditions or not....if kohli doesnt score and pujara score then its not friendly conditions for batting?? will get back to you.....bhaagiyo mat....will match pujara and kohli today isi waqt isi jagah....series per series score...hold on....

  16. #16
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    Kohl and India haters out in full force

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    What decides its friends conditions or not....if kohli doesnt score and pujara score then its not friendly conditions for batting?? will get back to you.....bhaagiyo mat....will match pujara and kohli today isi waqt isi jagah....series per series score...hold on....
    lol at series per series record.

    Overall record:

    Puajara has an average of 52.43

    Kohli has an average of 49.41

    althoguh I believe stats can never show the whole picture but still Pujara is better overall most Indians will agree. I know you will bring his 200s to save kohli but it wouldn't matter.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Kohl and India haters out in full force
    Kohli fans require burnol after Kohli has scored less runs in this series than Aussie extras hahaha

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    Kohli fans require burnol after Kohli has scored less runs in this series than Aussie extras hahaha
    Where were they for the last 4 sereis?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    I must have hit a nerve there I can understand you're crying because Kohli is failing miserably, and it's not the 1st time. When did I say Kohli is not a great player? But Kohli is still not the best Test batsman of India, Pujara is.

    I was only talking about the current series, the sledging he does, and lack of sportsmanship he shows on the field to Aussies has backfired, now whole India is crying and defending Kohli because he's failing miserably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    go ahead and check the record of last few years on statsguru, you'll only embarass yourself because Pujara has been better, few double tons in friendly conditions doesn't change that
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    lol at series per series record.

    Overall record:

    Puajara has an average of 52.43

    Kohli has an average of 49.41

    althoguh I believe stats can never show the whole picture but still Pujara is better overall most Indians will agree. I know you will bring his 200s to save kohli but it wouldn't matter.
    And what if i bring some top international commentators cricketers saying kohli is the best batsman in the world right now in each format comments?? ab tu thdi na bhai decide krega uske 200 matter krte ya nahi.......kohli has failed in total 2 test series he has played till now one is in england & one in india....what will you tell his stats we know stats by back of our hands...chal sojaiyo ab....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    And what if i bring some top international commentators cricketers saying kohli is the best batsman in the world right now in each format comments?? ab tu thdi na bhai decide krega uske 200 matter krte ya nahi.......kohli has failed in total 2 test series he has played till now one is in england & one in india....what will you tell his stats we know stats by back of our hands...chal sojaiyo ab....
    joke of the day Kohli is far from the best in test cricket, there are at least 10 better batsmen than him at the moment. Smith is way ahead of everyone else.
    Last edited by Citizen4; 19th March 2017 at 07:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post

    As far as I'm concerned, Virat Kohli is welcome here in Australia at any time. But if Anil Kumble walked down any street in the country, he'd need a bodyguard.
    Over exaggeration, most Caucasian Aussie fans would not even know who Anil Kumble is let alone have a go at him on the street. You are looking at it through an sub-continental fan's eyes, Aussies are cool, and not as emotional as the sub-continental lot.................

    Also going back to monkey gate after Bucknor won Australia the test match and all the incidents that took place on the field; at the end of the match Anil went upto to Ponting and said lets not take this any further, lets shake hands call it a game and leave it on the field. However Ponting refused complained like a little cry baby and decided to take it further, the little cry baby didn't realize you don't mess with the masters who own cricket, the result ?: he and Symonds rightly got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!....


    "Everything else seems so superfluous." ~ Albert Einstein on the Bhagavad-Gita

  23. #23
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    One thing that consistently comes out of that article is the repeated mention of the money Virat earns.Seems that cannot be digested in some countries.It was a habit of players from certain countries to consistently make fun of subcontinental cricketers regarding their financial background or condition.Now since the Indian cricketers are millionaires and earn far more than anyone else,the attempt is to make them look like arrogant,and not deserving of such financial status.

    I

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    By Dean JonesKohli is now Australia's No. 1 enemy or the "head of the snake", as Nathan Lyon has put it. The Australian boys are quite prepared to take it up to him and this series has been compulsive viewing.
    Dear Dean and Lyon,

    Kohli 6, India 603/9d

    There is no point in cutting off the snake's head when it has ten more heads!

    Enjoy 90 overs of 5th day torture of the remaining 8 Australian batsmen by Jadeja and Ashwin coming up...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Over exaggeration, most Caucasian Aussie fans would not even know who Anil Kumble is let alone have a go at him on the street. You are looking at it through an sub-continental fan's eyes, Aussies are cool, and not as emotional as the sub-continental lot.................

    Also going back to monkey gate after Bucknor won Australia the test match and all the incidents that took place on the field; at the end of the match Anil went upto to Ponting and said lets not take this any further, lets shake hands call it a game and leave it on the field. However Ponting refused complained like a little cry baby and decided to take it further, the little cry baby didn't realize you don't mess with the masters who own cricket, the result ?: he and Symonds rightly got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!....
    "Kumble would need a bodyguard in Australia"

    That surely was a joke or figure of speech?


    I smash and grab and stash the cash in plastic bags
    With raps that have pizzazz

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    LOL they overestimate themselves. They were always weak when playing in India irrespective of their bullish nature. Its just their fans need some masala to keep themselves interested in the game otherwise the rating will go down, that's why this rubbish.

  27. #27
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    It's the media in AUS that's most laughable, bigging up the team after a few days play like it's a sealed deal that India couldn't possibly win after Smith's legendary century.


    Dazzling the stage, Ginga Bishonen. Shinpathy!

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    Ofcourse they don't like him , Except Sachin , Aussie's don't really respect any other player much. Any adversary who gives it back to them is often disliked . Saurav , Bhajji , Shikhar , and now Virat ........Doesn't make much of a difference. Virat's gonna continue to get under the skin of the Aussie's ...thats a rare skill - must not lose it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Over exaggeration, most Caucasian Aussie fans would not even know who Anil Kumble is let alone have a go at him on the street. You are looking at it through an sub-continental fan's eyes, Aussies are cool, and not as emotional as the sub-continental lot.................

    Also going back to monkey gate after Bucknor won Australia the test match and all the incidents that took place on the field; at the end of the match Anil went upto to Ponting and said lets not take this any further, lets shake hands call it a game and leave it on the field. However Ponting refused complained like a little cry baby and decided to take it further, the little cry baby didn't realize you don't mess with the masters who own cricket, the result ?: he and Symonds rightly got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!....
    I agree , Kumble isn't as important to the Aussie's as some people might think. The only foreign player I have seen them quite aware of is Sachin

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    Kohli fans require burnol after Kohli has scored less runs in this series than Aussie extras hahaha
    Dost, One Series does not define a player whether for good or bad. He could score 0 in all three innings remaining, it wouldn't change a thing. His skill , determination and talent is proven and everyone knows he will come back.

  31. #31
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    Would be impossible to like Kohli if you aren't indian fan

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    I agree , Kumble isn't as important to the Aussie's as some people might think. The only foreign player I have seen them quite aware of is Sachin
    You have completely misunderstood the situation, and so has @Romali-rotti , whose post seems to congratulate Harbhajan Singh for racially abusing Andrew Symonds.

    No subcontinental has any reason to particularly dislike Anil Kumble. Why would they? Why should they?

    But Australians have three very strong reasons to hate his guts.

    Firstly, in the Monkeygate Test he did nothing to stop his players from racially abusing Andrew Symonds, who was one of Australia's most beloved players.

    Secondly, when his gutless team snatched defeat from the jaws of a certain draw in that Test, he accused Australia of bad sportsmanship, which remains as incendiary and offensive an accusation to a white cricketer as it was when last used during Bodyline 75 years earlier.

    Thirdly, he continued his tantrum for the next few days, in which time he threatened to call off the tour and presided over his team's disgraceful behavior, in which Sachin Tendulkar changed his evidence 180 degrees.

    To be precise, the ONLY cricket lovers in the world who are hostile towards Anil Kumble are Australian ones.

    Because he offended cricket lovers in Australia very deeply indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    You have completely misunderstood the situation, and so has @Romali-rotti , whose post seems to congratulate Harbhajan Singh for racially abusing Andrew Symonds.

    No subcontinental has any reason to particularly dislike Anil Kumble. Why would they? Why should they?

    But Australians have three very strong reasons to hate his guts.

    Firstly, in the Monkeygate Test he did nothing to stop his players from racially abusing Andrew Symonds, who was one of Australia's most beloved players.

    Secondly, when his gutless team snatched defeat from the jaws of a certain draw in that Test, he accused Australia of bad sportsmanship, which remains as incendiary and offensive an accusation to a white cricketer as it was when last used during Bodyline 75 years earlier.

    Thirdly, he continued his tantrum for the next few days, in which time he threatened to call off the tour and presided over his team's disgraceful behavior, in which Sachin Tendulkar changed his evidence 180 degrees.

    To be precise, the ONLY cricket lovers in the world who are hostile towards Anil Kumble are Australian ones.

    Because he offended cricket lovers in Australia very deeply indeed.
    Couple of things you are assuming in that incident

    1) Harbhajan did or did not racially abuse Symonds- No one knows. It's not a fact as of right now.
    2) Kumble being the captain isn't relevant because Symonds lost quite a bit of fans in that incident as well but no one cares if Ponting was the captain - Kumble sitting in the dressing room couldn't have been able to stop anything . Captains don't really step in when players are sledging each other - grown men you don't tell them what to do.
    3) If Monkeygate should have been such a big deal to the aussies still - Sachin was there in the middle and he backed Harbhajan , the Aussie fans should have hated him more than Kumble.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Couple of things you are assuming in that incident

    1) Harbhajan did or did not racially abuse Symonds- No one knows. It's not a fact as of right now.
    2) Kumble being the captain isn't relevant because Symonds lost quite a bit of fans in that incident as well but no one cares if Ponting was the captain - Kumble sitting in the dressing room couldn't have been able to stop anything . Captains don't really step in when players are sledging each other - grown men you don't tell them what to do.
    3) If Monkeygate should have been such a big deal to the aussies still - Sachin was there in the middle and he backed Harbhajan , the Aussie fans should have hated him more than Kumble.
    Two things.

    When you say "Symonds lost quite a bit of fans in that incident" you are clearly referring to Indian fans. In Australia he garnered enormous sympathy and probably it did more to break down casual racism in Australia than any other recent incident. @Convict will tell you that when Adam Goodes was racially vilified in an AFL match, many casual racists just thought that an uppity Aboriginal had it coming. But at Monkeygate, the entire country rallied behind Roy. Even the racists (who comically were appalled that "their" coloured player should abuse "our" one!)

    Your last point about Sachin is actually correct. It ruined his reputation as a human being in Australia.

    Sachin is universally admired as a great batsman in Australia. But the fact that he changed his evidence means that on one or both occasions he lied - there is no alternative.

    And Monkeygate sealed Sachin's fate in Australia as a batsman who could be admired as much as Brian Lara but who wasn't going to be liked or respected as a man in the way that Lara is.

    That's why Aussies roared with laughter at the bogus "100 international centuries" and giggled when he finally crawled to the landmark as a washed-up has-been whose selfish innings made his team lose to Bangladesh.

    And it's why Aussies smirked at Sachin being given a place in parliament. And laughed again when his attendance rate was publicized.

    There are consequences to the sort of behavior that Kumble and Tendulkar displayed at Sydney. And the victims, the country on the receiving end, will neither forgive nor forget.
    Last edited by Junaids; 20th March 2017 at 01:07.

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    Funny how white aussie fans don't care about what happened in Sydney, don't really think much about Kumble, Tendulkar, Harbijan. Its just not a big deal to them. It does however seem to matter a big deal to SC fans who fight over how much the Aussies worry about it.

    A tip for you both, its old news and nobody cares one way or another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    You have completely misunderstood the situation, and so has @Romali-rotti , whose post seems to congratulate Harbhajan Singh for racially abusing Andrew Symonds.

    No subcontinental has any reason to particularly dislike Anil Kumble. Why would they? Why should they?

    But Australians have three very strong reasons to hate his guts.

    Firstly, in the Monkeygate Test he did nothing to stop his players from racially abusing Andrew Symonds, who was one of Australia's most beloved players.

    Secondly, when his gutless team snatched defeat from the jaws of a certain draw in that Test, he accused Australia of bad sportsmanship, which remains as incendiary and offensive an accusation to a white cricketer as it was when last used during Bodyline 75 years earlier.

    Thirdly, he continued his tantrum for the next few days, in which time he threatened to call off the tour and presided over his team's disgraceful behavior, in which Sachin Tendulkar changed his evidence 180 degrees.

    To be precise, the ONLY cricket lovers in the world who are hostile towards Anil Kumble are Australian ones.

    Because he offended cricket lovers in Australia very deeply indeed.
    Ok but he doesn't need a bodyguard to come to Australia be real!

    Also in your earlier post I thought you were very harsh on Shoaib, he had so many injury problems. His body could not have withstood the strain of bowling as he did for long enough to take 400 wickets. He would have needed at least 90 tests? 100 perhaps. He defied all doctor's orders to play the 40-odd tests that he managed, anyway. We should all be glad we got to see as much of a special talent like him as we did.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post

    That's why Aussies roared with laughter at the bogus "100 international centuries" and giggled when he finally crawled to the landmark as a washed-up has-been whose selfish innings made his team lose to Bangladesh. -
    Stop using Australian fans as a toll for you to bash Tendulkar, reading your posts it is obvious to everyone that you have a problem with Tendulkar and India for that matter and you are just transferring that into the Aussie supporter to use as a way to troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Funny how white aussie fans don't care about what happened in Sydney, don't really think much about Kumble, Tendulkar, Harbijan. Its just not a big deal to them. It does however seem to matter a big deal to SC fans who fight over how much the Aussies worry about it.

    A tip for you both, its old news and nobody cares one way or another.
    Exactly, this was 10 years ago, nobody cares about it now.

    As far as I know everybody loves Sachin Tendulkar and Kumble is respected for being such a tough bowler, bowling with a broken jaw and all that. Harbhajan is pretty well despised, but he's unpopular even in India so that should come as no surprise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Stop using Australian fans as a toll for you to bash Tendulkar, reading your posts it is obvious to everyone that you have a problem with Tendulkar and India for that matter and you are just transferring that into the Aussie supporter to use as a way to troll.
    And yet I'm a doctor at a hospital where one fifty-something year old white female Aussie nurse has a picture of Andrew Symonds on her locker with a caption reading "STAND UP FOR ROY AGAINST THE RACISTS!"

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    Lol, would Kumble really need a bodyguard while walking down in streets of Australia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    And yet I'm a doctor at a hospital where one fifty-something year old white female Aussie nurse has a picture of Andrew Symonds on her locker with a caption reading "STAND UP FOR ROY AGAINST THE RACISTS!"
    I did think that you are basing most of your assumptions on just one person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Two things.

    When you say "Symonds lost quite a bit of fans in that incident" you are clearly referring to Indian fans. In Australia he garnered enormous sympathy and probably it did more to break down casual racism in Australia than any other recent incident. @Convict will tell you that when Adam Goodes was racially vilified in an AFL match, many casual racists just thought that an uppity Aboriginal had it coming. But at Monkeygate, the entire country rallied behind Roy. Even the racists (who comically were appalled that "their" coloured player should abuse "our" one!)

    Your last point about Sachin is actually correct. It ruined his reputation as a human being in Australia.

    Sachin is universally admired as a great batsman in Australia. But the fact that he changed his evidence means that on one or both occasions he lied - there is no alternative.

    And Monkeygate sealed Sachin's fate in Australia as a batsman who could be admired as much as Brian Lara but who wasn't going to be liked or respected as a man in the way that Lara is.

    That's why Aussies roared with laughter at the bogus "100 international centuries" and giggled when he finally crawled to the landmark as a washed-up has-been whose selfish innings made his team lose to Bangladesh.

    And it's why Aussies smirked at Sachin being given a place in parliament. And laughed again when his attendance rate was publicized.

    There are consequences to the sort of behavior that Kumble and Tendulkar displayed at Sydney. And the victims, the country on the receiving end, will neither forgive nor forget.
    I'll gladly disagree with you on couple things

    1) Sachin ruined his reputation ? I haven't seen any evidence of it and him being given a position in the Parliament proves his position more strongly , classroom or street banter by couple people does not malign . There are enough videos/ articles to cite the strong cult following Sachin still demands in Australia post this incidence and post his retirement.
    2) Sachin did not change his evidence from what my understanding is. Sachin never took the stance that Harbhajan used the word "monkey" , so where does changing his stance come in place? Your argument is based on the premise that this was the case but one party totally denied this and it wasn't proven conclusively.
    3) Again i fail to understand when you say Aussies giggled - Who are these Aussies and is this a mass reflection which I am missing , I'd love to see that. Friends/families/personal circle does not reflect that as a unison.

    Everyone reemembers the reception Sachin received at the MCG in 2011 , needless to say I don't see an aota of lost respect , I don't actually remember an Aussie batsman walking out and receiving that honor. If the 50,000 odd fans in the Stadium don't reflect it .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIgcb0JAxlY

    I'm sure you have seen the video of Maxwell running mid interview to greet Sachin post cwc 15 final ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5msYXtK150

    and Yes Symonds lost a lot of Indian fans but the point is it was Symonds , not ponting who lost fans , similarly Kumble has no relevance of that incident as Harbhajan and Symonds were involved. Indian's didn't seem to target Ponting for not controlling Symonds , not sure why Aussie's would think differently.
    Last edited by bleaf27; 20th March 2017 at 02:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I did think that you are basing most of your assumptions on just one person.
    Newspaper back page....

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    Newspaper front page....

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    Do Indian fans think that this sort of incident has no consequences? That Aussie cricket fans don't resent such antics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Newspaper back page....

    Name:  IMG_9883.jpg
Views: 524
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    Newspaper front page....

    Name:  IMG_9886.jpg
Views: 527
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    Do Indian fans think that this sort of incident has no consequences? That Aussie cricket fans don't resent such antics?
    I think you have mixed up fans and clickbait seeking reporters.

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    @bleaf27
    You are disputing that Tendulkar changed his Monkeygate evidence?

    Here is what Adam Gilchrist wrote in his autobiography:

    Tendulkar, who’d said at the first hearing that he hadn’t been able to hear what Harbhajan had said - and he was a fair way away, up the other end, so I’m certain he was telling the truth - now supported Harbhajan’s version that he hadn’t called Symo a ‘monkey’ but instead a Hindi term of abuse that might sound like ‘monkey’ to Australian ears.”

    And here is what Ricky Ponting wrote in his autobiography:

    “I couldn’t understand why Sachin didn’t tell this to (match referee) Mike Procter in the first place,”.

    And here is the commentary from the first literary review of Ricky Ponting's autobiography:
    "Writing candidly in his autobiography The Close of Play, Ponting has said publicly what many Australian players have uttered privately since the 2007-08 summer was torn asunder."

    This is all materially relevant to this thread.

    Because it shows that the comments of Dean Jones - in particular the "Douglas Jardine" comment, which is the single biggest insult an Australian cricket figure can make, making his previous Amla "Ayatollah" comments look harmless - relate to a pattern of behavior by Indian cricketers which the Australian public has found unacceptable for over a decade.
    Last edited by Junaids; 20th March 2017 at 02:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I think you have mixed up fans and clickbait seeking reporters.
    Public opinion is highly influenced by the tabloid press.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Public opinion is highly influenced by the tabloid press.
    You talk too much for Australian supporters, I read a lot of your comments and you seem to bait Indian fans with your version of what Australian supporters think. Most of the time you are wrong and as shown above rely on using tabloid journalism for your evidence. Most Australians don't even follow cricket and those that do mostly only follow cricket that is played in Australia with a very small minority that could even name two players from the Indian team.

    I get that you like to bait and troll the Indian cricket fans but could you do it from a Pakistan supporter view instead of making up stories about the Australian supporters. I also find you constant assertion that you are a doctor to smell a bit fishy, I know a few doctors and they never seem so desperate to assure everyone they are doctors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    @bleaf27
    You are disputing that Tendulkar changed his Monkeygate evidence?

    Here is what Adam Gilchrist wrote in his autobiography:

    Tendulkar, who’d said at the first hearing that he hadn’t been able to hear what Harbhajan had said - and he was a fair way away, up the other end, so I’m certain he was telling the truth - now supported Harbhajan’s version that he hadn’t called Symo a ‘monkey’ but instead a Hindi term of abuse that might sound like ‘monkey’ to Australian ears.”

    And here is what Ricky Ponting wrote in his autobiography:

    “I couldn’t understand why Sachin didn’t tell this to (match referee) Mike Procter in the first place,”.

    And here is the commentary from the first literary review of Ricky Ponting's autobiography:
    "Writing candidly in his autobiography The Close of Play, Ponting has said publicly what many Australian players have uttered privately since the 2007-08 summer was torn asunder."

    This is all materially relevant to this thread.

    Because it shows that the comments of Dean Jones - in particular the "Douglas Jardine" comment, which is the single biggest insult an Australian cricket figure can make, making his previous Amla "Ayatollah" comments look harmless - relate to a pattern of behavior by Indian cricketers which the Australian public has found unacceptable for over a decade.
    I have read Sachin's autobiography and he is quite clear on his report and his account. Secondly by your summary Of Gilchrist's book - "He might have said something that sounds like Monkey" , key word is might

    Secondly, Harbhajan wasn't convincted or found guilty . in a hearing , a witness can be called out if they are found to be lying, If Sachin had so clearly said in the first hearing that he couldn't hear it and in the following hearing , reverted his statements , the council / Jeff Crowe or whoever was preceeding on the case would have questioned Sachin or could have dismissed his account as well , which wasn't the case.

    Thirdly, Except Symond/ Ponting who "accused" Harbhajan of using the term Monkey - what evidence is there ? The whole premise of racial vilification and lying come's into question only if it was said that in first place and except Symonds / Ponting - well in this case even Ponting who would have been even further away from Sachin off the pitch wouldn't be able to say for certain , what supports Symonds accusation ? Because Symonds is a person of color and the match being in Australia - the accusation picked up on emotion.

    So, the conduct I have seen from the Australian Press , Australian Fans and the Australian cricketers post this incident and post his retirement doesn't show any change of conduct or perception towards him atleast to me.
    But my whole point was towards Kumble , him being the captain during this incident is irrelevant, just like Ponting being the Aussie captain has no relevance to this incident , so does Kumble.

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    Monkeygate is irrelevant stuff that people only bring up now whenever Indian fans pretend India is a paragon of moral virtue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    @bleaf27
    Because it shows that the comments of Dean Jones - in particular the "Douglas Jardine" comment, which is the single biggest insult an Australian cricket figure can make, making his previous Amla "Ayatollah" comments look harmless - relate to a pattern of behavior by Indian cricketers which the Australian public has found unacceptable for over a decade.
    Aussies finding rude and yob behavior unacceptable ? This is like Foxes suddenly finding meat eating unacceptable and trying to advocate vegetarianism to the few Lions that decided to deal with the menace.

    Iam no fan of Harbhajan Singh but I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for the Aussies. None Zippo. Nada,


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Stop using Australian fans as a toll for you to bash Tendulkar, reading your posts it is obvious to everyone that you have a problem with Tendulkar and India for that matter and you are just transferring that into the Aussie supporter to use as a way to troll.
    Yeah, @Junaids is seriously obsessed with India in a negative way. Given that he is a doctor (as he mentions in his posts multiple times), his obsession is especially scary.

    Whether Harbhajan said "Maa-ki" (which isn't particularly polite either) or "Monkey" is immaterial to 99.999999% of Aussies. To dredge up in a David Boon thread discussing Kohli is absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Two things.

    When you say "Symonds lost quite a bit of fans in that incident" you are clearly referring to Indian fans. In Australia he garnered enormous sympathy and probably it did more to break down casual racism in Australia than any other recent incident. @Convict will tell you that when Adam Goodes was racially vilified in an AFL match, many casual racists just thought that an uppity Aboriginal had it coming. But at Monkeygate, the entire country rallied behind Roy. Even the racists (who comically were appalled that "their" coloured player should abuse "our" one!)

    Your last point about Sachin is actually correct. It ruined his reputation as a human being in Australia.

    Sachin is universally admired as a great batsman in Australia. But the fact that he changed his evidence means that on one or both occasions he lied - there is no alternative.

    And Monkeygate sealed Sachin's fate in Australia as a batsman who could be admired as much as Brian Lara but who wasn't going to be liked or respected as a man in the way that Lara is.

    That's why Aussies roared with laughter at the bogus "100 international centuries" and giggled when he finally crawled to the landmark as a washed-up has-been whose selfish innings made his team lose to Bangladesh.

    And it's why Aussies smirked at Sachin being given a place in parliament. And laughed again when his attendance rate was publicized.

    There are consequences to the sort of behavior that Kumble and Tendulkar displayed at Sydney. And the victims, the country on the receiving end, will neither forgive nor forget.
    First of all you cant compare apples and oranges, AFL is a whole different kettle of fish than cricket. No one takes cricket personally in Australia, Footy is a different case altogether. All my Caucasian aussie friends/acquaintances don't even know who the heck Anil Kumble is. The only player they know is SRT and they all still claim he is an amazing batsmen freak of nature and an atg, Aussies always love players who have the X factor, they maybe rowdy and call you names at the stadium when the game is on etc however they appreciate ATG players. Whatever you have said is purely from your subcontinental perspective and does not reflect the Australian Caucasian population.

    Also here is a storey I might add: 2001 Australia vs WI ODI at the MCG I was there when a Caucasian lady sitting right behind me yelled out: Run Monkey boy Run when Symonds was chasing the ball, I don't need to be dishonest on this as I swear this on my dear mother's life that is what she said...... So the monkey gate already started way before TERA MA_KI by Indians...........


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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    First of all you cant compare apples and oranges, AFL is a whole different kettle of fish than cricket. No one takes cricket personally in Australia, Footy is a different case altogether. All my Caucasian aussie friends/acquaintances don't even know who the heck Anil Kumble is. The only player they know is SRT and they all still claim he is an amazing batsmen freak of nature and an atg, Aussies always love players who have the X factor, they maybe rowdy and call you names at the stadium when the game is on etc however they appreciate ATG players. Whatever you have said is purely from your subcontinental perspective and does not reflect the Australian Caucasian population.

    Also here is a storey I might add: 2001 Australia vs WI ODI at the MCG I was there when a Caucasian lady sitting right behind me yelled out: Run Monkey boy Run when Symonds was chasing the ball, I don't need to be dishonest on this as I swear this on my dear mother's life that is what she said...... So the monkey gate already started way before TERA MA_KI by Indians...........
    I think the Australian fan dislike of Kohli will stop immediately after he retires. They basically dislike him because he isn't Australian. Kohli would have fit in perfect alongside Ricky Ponting, snarling at the opposition in the field. He's not like the stereotypical quiet and reserved Indian cricketer, a Boy Scout like Dravid or Sachin. But generally you're quite right, Australians appreciate great cricketers. Kevin Pietersen was pretty unpopular while he played for England, these days he is well liked. I think even Murali found some peace with Australian fans by the time he started playing for Melbourne Renegades in BBL cricket


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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdumpire View Post
    I guess you have Pakistani roots. Dont be so ignorant. If you knew even lil bit of Punjabi, you'd know about curse words like Maa-di, Phen-di etc.

    Harbhajan, being a Sardar, it was it was quite natural for him to give such expletive in anger. To equate it to "Monkey" and call it a racial slur is being ignorant.
    Harbhajan called Symonds a monkey in the ODI series in India earlier.

    There's no evidence he's racist but he clearly knew what to say to get under Symonds skin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Harbhajan called Symonds a monkey in the ODI series in India earlier.

    There's no evidence he's racist but he clearly knew what to say to get under Symonds skin.
    According to modern Western liberal standards unless you believe that every race has exactly the same abilities you are racist. A difficult test to pass honestly. Doesn't matter if you want good for everybody, you have to believe in the liberal standard, otherwise you are a racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    it's an extraordinary claim for Deano to have made.
    Cutting to the chase, the Keg on Legs had to choose between:

    A) High probability of continued employment by PSL x small PSL money

    B) Small probability of future employment by IPL x big IPL money

    Seems like he thought the first option was the way to go.
    Last edited by Napa; 20th March 2017 at 08:36.

  57. #57
    Debut
    Jan 2013
    Venue
    1987 2011 2015
    Runs
    36,187
    Mentioned
    2118 Post(s)
    Tagged
    16 Thread(s)
    Legendary captain



    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  58. #58
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    11,339
    Mentioned
    126 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Australian public may respect Virat as a batsmen but I don't think they like him.

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