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  1. #1
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    "Hardik Pandya, it seems as if he’s the golden boy in this team" : Michael Holding

    “Pandya, it seems as if he’s the golden boy in this team. Everyone thinks he’s going to be the next Kapil Dev. He hasn’t shown that yet. “Why not pick a batsman (instead)?, and you don’t need him as a bowler in my eyes,” added Holding.

    http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/i...holding-732630

    It looks as if he's already losing credibility. He's good in T20is. But, in odis and tests, I seriously doubt his utility.

    Even Kohli has lost trust in his bowling it seems and, I think he's not a good enough batsman to play as a genuine batsman

    He clearly is not a bowler which is visible in his stats, and even a great like Holding can see that. Moreover, you don't need to be a great of cricket to know that, any unbiased fan would be able to see what he is.

    Test:
    Bat: 35, Bowl: 47
    ODI:
    Bat: 29, Bowl: 43

    These are some embarrassing stats, especially bowling. And a genuine batsman can be better than those batting stats. Since world cup is near, I don't want to change the combination. But if he's still the same at the WC, then better he be shown the door.

    You can't have a so called AR, when he's not making the team based on atleast one of his skills.

    Our fans show stop the hype with Pandya, all he's doing is rolling his hand like a part timer.
    Last edited by MenInG; 5th August 2018 at 08:35.

  2. #2
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    He's extremely talented which can't be denied and he's certainly much better than what India used to have as all-rounders like Stuart Binny, Robin Singh, Sanjay Bangar, Reetinder Singh Sodhi.

    However, he's still not a dependable all rounder. His bowling isn't great and his batting isn't consistent. Mamoon on this forum called him a future captain and I said that Pandya would be dropped from the Indian team. Pandya really needs to be dropped for him to come out of this zone where he thinks he's indispensable to India. Would actually serve him well to go back to the domestic and sort out himself.

  3. #3
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    He has immense potential with the bat. Unbelievable striker of the ball. But right now based on his performances, he doesn’t deserve this special kind of treatment.

  4. #4
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    What a joke.

    Please stop fawning over him already.

  5. #5
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    If Hardik Pandya can make it past tape ball cricket, so can I.


    What a massive inspiration, is Hardik.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  6. #6
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    His bowling has digressed a lot, not improved at all.

    Batting has improved but doesn’t look like Test class.

  7. #7
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    I can't care less what Michael holding thinks about modern generation cricketers, he's a jealous old man and it shows it many a times when he's commentating.

    However for Pandya, my view about him is even worse than Holding. Pandya is not a 17-18 yrs old talent, but a 25 yrs old guy who until 6 months back didn't have 500 first class runs or 25 wkts. That clearly shows he's an overrated cricketer. But in context of this series and knowing the squad we have, the other option is Jadeja who's even worse. So Kohli has no option now but to play Pandya.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    I can't care less what Michael holding thinks about modern generation cricketers, he's a jealous old man and it shows it many a times when he's commentating.
    I'm not sure how much credibility Michael Holding has as a commentator. At best, he's a big bore to listen to. If he is not whining about the batsmen and bowlers of today, he drones on about his experiences from the 1970s and 1980s ad nauseum - as if most of us really care.

    Very much the Ian Chappell type, can't go for more than 10 minutes without hitting the mute button. Sangakkara is usually alongside him however, and is a breath of fresh air in comparison.

  9. #9
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    Shahid Afridi-esque without the star power, extremely explosive hitting and knack of picking up crucial wickets. Basically a homeless person's Afridi.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    I'm not sure how much credibility Michael Holding has as a commentator. At best, he's a big bore to listen to. If he is not whining about the batsmen and bowlers of today, he drones on about his experiences from the 1970s and 1980s ad nauseum - as if most of us really care.

    Very much the Ian Chappell type, can't go for more than 10 minutes without hitting the mute button. Sangakkara is usually alongside him however, and is a breath of fresh air in comparison.
    Holding is worst of all because his jealousy reflects in his vocabulary. He once said Pollard is not even a cricketer. Now fine you may not think highly of Pollard and u may feel he's earning more money than he deserves, which is ok but why would you humiliate someone 40 yrs younger to you? Because you are a nasty old man.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Shahid Afridi-esque without the star power, extremely explosive hitting and knack of picking up crucial wickets. Basically a homeless person's Afridi.
    Yes, thank you for agreeing with me.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  12. #12
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    Pandiya is a hard hitting, clean striking lower order batsman - a good number 7 or 8. A great guy to come in with a few overs left and up the strike rate.

    Unfortunately, he can’t bowl and he can’t be relied on to last long in a test match.

    So I don’t see what his role is in a test or odi team to be frank. Even in an odi team, his 10 overs will be targeted.

    He is best suited to 20-20.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Holding is worst of all because his jealousy reflects in his vocabulary. He once said Pollard is not even a cricketer. Now fine you may not think highly of Pollard and u may feel he's earning more money than he deserves, which is ok but why would you humiliate someone 40 yrs younger to you? Because you are a nasty old man.
    Holding has no need for jealousy. He makes plenty from his books and from sky. And he is respected all time great. He is always honest and spot on with his views.

  14. #14
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    Kapil was so far ahead that its not even funny.

    Pandya can match Kapil with the bat but as a bowler, one is India's greatest ever while the other is a part-timer.

  15. #15
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    He needs proper coaching for couple of years to become test class allrounder.
    India forwarded him too early in test cricket imo.

    His jack of all trades bowling stystyle works in limited overs cricket but in test cricket you need strong basics as a bowler which he lacks.

  16. #16
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    People here talk some nonsense. What does Holding have to be jealous of from Pollard?

    Money? Holding has enough, and still makes a lot of money. In fact, considering how Pollard lives, I bet that at Holding's age, Holding now is probably richer than Pollard or Gayle will be

    Cricketing talent? Don't make me laugh

  17. #17
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    He might be but he definitely isnt at the moment and thus should not be a such a fixed fixture in the team

    Play him here and there against the smaller teams and let him develop but at the moment he should not be near the first x1 for such a important series

  18. #18
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    Whenever I've actually watched him, I've almost always watched him see it Muck it up. As I've said this before, he's basically India's version of Anwar Ali !

  19. #19
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    He's probably taking his place in the team for granted, since there is no seam AR. Also, the fact that Ashwin and Jadeja out is helping as well.

    Earlier Ashwin and Jadeja were good bats and were coming at 7 and 8 and, Bhuvi at 9 which was quite good. But, now we have Chahal and Kuldeep as spinners, hence you can't have 4 tail enders in Kuldeep, Chahal, Bumrah and 3rd seamer. It's quite a long tail in modern odis.

    I would try his brother as a second spinner ASAP and Shami as a 3rd seamer for the next series.

    Krunal P
    B Kumar
    M Shami
    K Yadav
    J Bumrah

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    What a joke.

    Please stop fawning over him already.
    Thats the problem. No one has read the OP. Classic problem in the threads. The headline is misleading. Michael Holding is actually skeptical of everyone calling him the next Kapil Dev. Holding actually says Pandaya hasnt shown that he is worthy of being called the next Kapil Dev and should only be considered against other batters.

    Holding, Atherton, and Naseer hussain are three people who should be listened to whenever they speak.

  21. #21
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    Pandya will always average 30 odd with the bat. I disagree when people says he should bat up the order. The sooner Pandya realises (like Faheem) that he needs to increase a yard of pace in his bowling the better.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post

    Pandya can match Kapil with the bat
    No way. Kapil was a master batsman who always played above his ability and that too against world class attacks. Kapil was determined and a hard worker. He was an honest and genuine guy and you could see that on his face.
    Pandya needs to put his focus in bowling. And just like how we Pakistan fans do not dare compare Faheem Ashraf with Imran Khan, Indians and other experts should also stop comparing Pandya to Kapil. That is an insult to Kapil who is once in a life time kind of player.

  23. #23
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    If your going to compare him to ATGs that's where you will be disappointed as an Indian fan and as a neutral that's where you will call him overrated.

    He has fantastical potential with the bat. He is still trying to find his way. I think he will come good because India are going to give him a lot of game time. He has shown glimpses of his potential with bat .

  24. #24
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    Lol. So now the whole world including his die hard fans have started to realise that he is a bits and pieces cricketer. He should only play T20s only for India. I predicted his die hard fans to be the first ones to curse him and lol I saw few of them called him a coward.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 5th August 2018 at 12:26.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Shahid Afridi-esque without the star power, extremely explosive hitting and knack of picking up crucial wickets. Basically a homeless person's Afridi.
    I called him Gareebon ka Afridi. I guess I wasn't wrong then.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Holding has no need for jealousy. He makes plenty from his books and from sky. And he is respected all time great. He is always honest and spot on with his views.
    Sep 2017 - “I am not interested in whatever Brian Lara says. Never was, never will be,” that was Holding’s blunt response when PTI asked him to comment on what Lara said against the 63-year-old while delivering the MCC Spirit of Cricket Cowdrey lecture at Lord’s last Monday. - yes, you have a view on everyone and u want people to listen to it but ur own countryman shows u the mirror and suddenly you are not interested.

    May 2010 - “Kieron Pollard,in my opinion,is not a cricketer” said Michael Holding recently after the World T20. At this time , Pollard first class average was 37 with three centuries and five fifties in 20 matches. But hey he's becoming famous so let me ridicule him.

    Fast forward to sep 2016, "The former West Indies bowler Michael Holding, who was one of the most dangerous bowlers of his heydays feels that the Pakistan wicket-keeper Sarfraz Ahmed should have been a preferred choice for the World Test XI instead of the South African skipper AB de Villiers.". Talk about some vision.

    Sure the man does have some great opinions and no he's not nasty

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    He might be but he definitely isnt at the moment and thus should not be a such a fixed fixture in the team

    Play him here and there against the smaller teams and let him develop but at the moment he should not be near the first x1 for such a important series
    Smaller teams? He was rested for the series against Zimbabwe as if he is Virat Kohli.

  28. #28
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    I can finally understand why Michael Holding is saying this. He might have read some posts mentioning 'Sobers' name with Pandya and got fed up with it. Nobody would like to see their country's legends name associated with a noob from another country.

  29. #29
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    The sannaataa from the usual suspects is interesting. One above average performance, and everyone will be back shooting replies to @Bhaag Viru Bhaag

  30. #30
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    Well John Wright and Sachin rate him highly.

    And though he may not be a finished product as yet, but his improvement from when he started has been pretty good.

    And Holding rates even Pujara highly due to his orthodox style which suits his tastes. He is probably not up-to-date with Pujara's struggles in County cricket, practice matches and even in the nets.

    Also, he doesn't consider T20 format to be cricket and so he is very biased in that way against T20 stars of today.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhilash93 View Post
    Well John Wright and Sachin rate him highly.

    And though he may not be a finished product as yet, but his improvement from when he started has been pretty good.

    And Holding rates even Pujara highly due to his orthodox style which suits his tastes. He is probably not up-to-date with Pujara's struggles in County cricket, practice matches and even in the nets.

    Also, he doesn't consider T20 format to be cricket and so he is very biased in that way against T20 stars of today.
    Holding is very accurate though, the selfish coward isn't a good enough bowling option to be an A/R and we have a lot better batting options. Also Pujara for all his struggles is still the best player of spin in the indian team, also his last test against a better pace attack on a far more difficult pitch saw him score 50, so i won't just right him off. Also I don't think Holding's t-20 dislike really colors his opinion that much, he clearly rates likes of warner and kohli without casting aspersions at their ability because they play t-20, it's just that he seems to have a certain standard when he judges a test player and the selfish coward doesn't really match them.

  32. #32
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    I have been saying it for sometime now that Pandya isnt as good as people hype him to be rather he is a pretty mediocre player at the moment. That doesnt mean he cant improve but at the moment he lacks batting technique and penetration with ball.

    Many bumped the thread when he took a 4fer in a T20 when it was obvious he didnt bowl a single wicket taking delievery and it was batsmen targetting him and throwing kitchen sink on his bowling.

    People could have disagreed with me but now even the great Michael Holding is saying same thing and please the so called experts dont start saying that you know more cricket than a guy who has been involved in cricket in one way or another through out his life.

  33. #33
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    Our problem is the 4 other batsmen in top 5 being a total flop the moment ball starts to swing and seam. Pandya is not the readon for losses.

    He bowls those 8-10 overs to give rest to main pacers. That has helped us take 80 out of 80 wickets in last 4 away tests. Those 10 overs become even more crucial because we play back to bavk tests and therefore main bowlers cannot be overlooked. He gets picked ahead of 6th specialist batsman because captain knows that this 6th batsman will be equally useless like the other 4 main batsmen.

    In Asian conditions, he hit a 100 in SL and a 70 vs Afg. So can score in those conditions like others.

    Having said that, he needs to add more skills to his bowling. With some work on his wrist position and release, he definitely can become a very good seamer. Has the capability to bowl 140+ and has done that on many occassions.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Shahid Afridi-esque without the star power, extremely explosive hitting and knack of picking up crucial wickets. Basically a homeless person's Afridi.
    India would dream if he can be half as good as Afridi. He can only dream about hitting sixes to fast bowlers which afridi did in his time and with the ball I think even some minnows have better pacers.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Holding is worst of all because his jealousy reflects in his vocabulary. He once said Pollard is not even a cricketer. Now fine you may not think highly of Pollard and u may feel he's earning more money than he deserves, which is ok but why would you humiliate someone 40 yrs younger to you? Because you are a nasty old man.
    Tell me a single analysis of Holding going wrong?

  36. #36
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    What Holding says about India should not be tajen seriously. The guy hates Indian cricket and Bcci. Thays pretty well known.

  37. #37
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    Holding's favourite Indian player is Pujara as he doesn't play in the IPL.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What Holding says about India should not be tajen seriously. The guy hates Indian cricket and Bcci. Thays pretty well known.
    Just because he is critical of BCCI doesnn't mean he hates india, tell me a point he is wrong about here.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What Holding says about India should not be tajen seriously. The guy hates Indian cricket and Bcci. Thays pretty well known.
    Talk about the current topic. Tell us where he is wrong on Pandya?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I have been saying it for sometime now that Pandya isnt as good as people hype him to be rather he is a pretty mediocre player at the moment. That doesnt mean he cant improve but at the moment he lacks batting technique and penetration with ball.

    Many bumped the thread when he took a 4fer in a T20 when it was obvious he didnt bowl a single wicket taking delievery and it was batsmen targetting him and throwing kitchen sink on his bowling.

    People could have disagreed with me but now even the great Michael Holding is saying same thing and please the so called experts dont start saying that you know more cricket than a guy who has been involved in cricket in one way or another through out his life.
    Saying it from Day 1 that he is an overhyped player. You need good eyes and an experience of watching players like him already to spot that. Bowling wise even a zimbabwean part timer can beat him. Batting wise he is just a hit and miss player. Will play a good innning 1 out of 5 innings.

    Look at the fake expression and intensity he tries to display every time he comes on to bat.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagatk View Post
    Just because he is critical of BCCI doesnn't mean he hates india, tell me a point he is wrong about here.
    He is critical of Indian cricket. Hates it. Listen to his commentary.

    Hardik Pandya is a batting AR. Not a bowling one.

    If we had listened to Holding, Sehwag wouldnot have played that many tests for India.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Talk about the current topic. Tell us where he is wrong on Pandya?
    At most places.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What Holding says about India should not be tajen seriously. The guy hates Indian cricket and Bcci. Thays pretty well known.
    Think he has earned the right to be listened to due to his standing as a player


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Talk about the current topic. Tell us where he is wrong on Pandya?
    India are not looking for Kapil Dev but for a decent seam bowling all rounder who can score 35-40 runs, bowl 6-8 overs consistently in ODIs and 10 overs a day in Tests to rest other bowlers. If an expert like Holding can't see that and starts personally attacking a player who has played just 7 tests but already has 3 50s and a 100 at number 7, has done decently with the ball by our pace bowling standards and is a great fielder, fair to question Holding's judgment.

    In the last 4 away tests, he's done better than all top batsmen bar Kohli, and in SL and vs Afg, outscored many of them. Bowling is right now his weaker suit and will get better as he plays.

    BTW Holding's hate for Indian cricket does come out every now and then, more so since IPL started. Was discussed to death on this forum during the 2011 Eng tour.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    He is critical of Indian cricket. Hates it. Listen to his commentary.

    Hardik Pandya is a batting AR. Not a bowling one.

    If we had listened to Holding, Sehwag wouldnot have played that many tests for India.
    A batting A/R who is in the team because he can bowl pace isn't exactly a batting a/r nothing in his batting has shown us that he can actually be a good batsman, we have much better batting options than him.

  46. #46
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    Just shows the desperation of some supporters that they would rather try and belittle one of the greats of the game in Michael Holding rather than try and engage with what he is saying. What a shame.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Just shows the desperation of some supporters that they would rather try and belittle one of the greats of the game in Michael Holding rather than try and engage with what he is saying. What a shame.
    i think i was the first one to call Holding a jealous old man in this thread, and i stand by it. In the same post, i clearly mentioned that i 100% agree with what he has to say about Pandya, as i have repeatedly said on PP that he is neither a bowler nor a batsman, and is in the team because of reasons i don't know..

    Holding was one of the greatest bowler in his time, but IMO, and i am entitled to have one, he's a very small person when it comes to character. He was the one who kicked the stumps when decision didn't go in his favor and when Brian Lara pointed that, he ridiculed Lara. He is someone who has a very biased opinion about world cricket, he likes everything about Pakistan cricket, most things about English cricket and a few things about SA cricket. When it comes to India and West Inida, he hates everything about Indian and WI cricket, so that's the reason why Indians don't have to take his comments seriously. Case in point - When kohli scored century at centurion, his only view was "When I see him score runs in England, I would call him a great player not before that". He couldn't come to congratulating Kohli on his century, but only wanted to highlight his weak record until that time. Like i said, the guy may have all the talents and stats, he doesn't have much of character.

  48. #48
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    Actually, i correct myself. I don't think Holding was a great bowler because i just checked his stats. Since he thought in Jan'18 Kohli can't be considered great until he scores runs in England, so based upon his own benchmarks, he ain't a great bowler either. Of the 4 countries he played international cricket outside WI, he averaged 48 in one of those (NZ). Too bad!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think he has earned the right to be listened to due to his standing as a player
    No one is questioning his standing as a player. But his hatred towards India is well known.

    He called a Indian player mediocre who was named Sehwag. We all know how that ended up.

    Next he said that Lara had a better batting technique than Tendulkar.

    And many such comments. So he also has earned the mockery his remarks on India generate.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Just shows the desperation of some supporters that they would rather try and belittle one of the greats of the game in Michael Holding rather than try and engage with what he is saying. What a shame.
    If someone calls Sehwag a mediocre player well he will be belittled.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Actually, i correct myself. I don't think Holding was a great bowler because i just checked his stats. Since he thought in Jan'18 Kohli can't be considered great until he scores runs in England, so based upon his own benchmarks, he ain't a great bowler either. Of the 4 countries he played international cricket outside WI, he averaged 48 in one of those (NZ). Too bad!
    Holding would have called Tendulkar a mediocre player if he could.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Holding would have called Tendulkar a mediocre player if he could.
    Now you are making things up to support your case?

  53. #53
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    Holding also aired his views about the much-hyped comparison of Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli, especially after the latter completed 30 ODI hundreds in the just concluded series against Sri Lanka.

    "There is a long long way to go (before he gets close to Tendulkar's record) but he is certainly a great batsman," said Holding.

    Asked if Kohli is a better batsman compared to Tendulkar or vice-versa, the Jamaican added: "Well, I don't like comparisons."

    India have an envious Test record under Kohli with the team winning its eighth series in a row, albeit most of them were won in the sub-continent.

    Holding said time will only tell if the current Indian team can win outside the sub-continent. The team has tough tours of England and South Africa lined-up next year.

    "I don't know. They have to do it to prove it. The proof of the cake is in the eating. So we will just have to wait and see what they do (outside the sub-continent). You can't predict these things," Holding said.
    Can posters enlighten me where the "hate" is? He praises Tendulkar, Kohli and says only time will tell if India can succeed overseas.

    The evidence to date suggests they can't, but even if that wasn't the case which part of what Holding said suggests he hates India?

    @happydavy
    Last edited by mak36; 5th August 2018 at 18:03.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Actually, i correct myself. I don't think Holding was a great bowler
    I have heard it all now.

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    I know he dislikes bcci but what he said does make sense. Like people said focus on ball not bowler, Similarly i would say focus on statement not person who said it.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Next he said that Lara had a better batting technique than Tendulkar.
    Err,so?That's just his opinion.Freedom of speech and all.

  57. #57
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    Stop being a crybaby. Not everyone has to accept that Kohli is the most popular cricketer in England or Pandya is regarded as a top all rounder outside India.

  58. #58
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    Pandya has been disappointing, he needs to step it up in the next game.

    Holding though is a Sky stooge and is unable to think objectively like some of his colleagues. I remember him saying SA was the best test team in the world after India lost the first test over there. So fickle.


    John 3:16

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    “Pandya, it seems as if he’s the golden boy in this team. Everyone thinks he’s going to be the next Kapil Dev. He hasn’t shown that yet. “Why not pick a batsman (instead)?, and you don’t need him as a bowler in my eyes,” added Holding.

    http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/i...holding-732630

    It looks as if he's already losing credibility. He's good in T20is. But, in odis and tests, I seriously doubt his utility.

    Even Kohli has lost trust in his bowling it seems and, I think he's not a good enough batsman to play as a genuine batsman

    He clearly is not a bowler which is visible in his stats, and even a great like Holding can see that. Moreover, you don't need to be a great of cricket to know that, any unbiased fan would be able to see what he is.

    Test:
    Bat: 35, Bowl: 47
    ODI:
    Bat: 29, Bowl: 43

    These are some embarrassing stats, especially bowling. And a genuine batsman can be better than those batting stats. Since world cup is near, I don't want to change the combination. But if he's still the same at the WC, then better he be shown the door.

    You can't have a so called AR, when he's not making the team based on atleast one of his skills.

    Our fans show stop the hype with Pandya, all he's doing is rolling his hand like a part timer.
    Once Ishant averaged more than the average of Pandya in tests with the ball. But Ishant was taken as a pure fast bowler in the team.Indian management trusted on Ishant's capability for a long time and look at him now, where his bowling stat lies now. Pandya is taken as an all rounder.So his bowling stat should be given time to improve. India or any other team badly needs an pace bowling all rounder both in tests and ODIs.Look at England.How Stokes delivered in Edbaston.Look at Pakistan.Inclusion of Fahim has added a newer dimension in Pak bowling attack.I disagree personally with Holding in this regard. India should invest on Pandya for a long time.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Err,so?That's just his opinion.Freedom of speech and all.
    So i dont have the FoE to criticise him?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    So i dont have the FoE to criticise him?
    You do.But to criticize him for his opinion is wrong nonetheless.It's not like he is hurting anyone.Or is he?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    So i dont have the FoE to criticise him?
    Stop shifting goalposts.

    You were using the fact he prefers Lara over Sachin as evidence of his "hatred towards India."

    When actually that (expert) opinion is perfectly reasonable and justified. Equally, it is an opinion which reasonable people can disagree about and they are entitled to.

    But what it most certainly does not show is he hates India, which is what you were contending. Try again.

    Moral of the story: stop being so sensitive.
    @Arham_PakFan
    Last edited by mak36; 5th August 2018 at 18:23.

  63. #63
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    M. Holding has a right to express his opinion, Indian fans have right to disagree with his opinion. He is right whatever he said about Pandya.

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    Pandya is least of India's concerns. He looked most assured with the bat after Kohli in 1st test. He need to just brush up the bowling.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    India would dream if he can be half as good as Afridi. He can only dream about hitting sixes to fast bowlers which afridi did in his time and with the ball I think even some minnows have better pacers.
    Which Indian dream of an Afridi?? Bhai hamare itne boore din bhi nehi aaye hai

  66. #66
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    Relax guys. Hardik is not a test quality AR yet. But he definitely can play the white ball formats especially with his hard hitting down the order. He is just out of form. I am confident come the WC he is going to pay back the investments done on him.


    Win or lose - it is Team INDIA I choose...

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    I have heard it all now.
    U heard it from Holding himself. In Jan this year, he thot Kohli wasn't great because he hadn't scored runs in England. I m sure he holds the same benchmark for himself. His bowling average is 48 in NZ. Now laugh again!

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dani2k View Post
    Relax guys. Hardik is not a test quality AR yet. But he definitely can play the white ball formats especially with his hard hitting down the order. He is just out of form. I am confident come the WC he is going to pay back the investments done on him.
    Good sensible comment!

    Think Holding reacting to the hype about Pandya but I am sure Pandya himself doesnt believe that hype


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    You do.But to criticize him for his opinion is wrong nonetheless.It's not like he is hurting anyone.Or is he?
    Why cant he be criticised for his constant hatred towards my country?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Why cant he be criticised for his constant hatred towards my country?
    Some of you have a habit of attacking the messenger and diverting the topic. For once concentrate on what he is saying not who is saying it.


    Tum mujhe bhaga sako aisa ho nahi sakta aur tum mere begair bhaago yeh main hone nahi dunga - Viru

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Stop shifting goalposts.

    You were using the fact he prefers Lara over Sachin as evidence of his "hatred towards India."

    When actually that (expert) opinion is perfectly reasonable and justified. Equally, it is an opinion which reasonable people can disagree about and they are entitled to.

    But what it most certainly does not show is he hates India, which is what you were contending. Try again.

    Moral of the story: stop being so sensitive.
    @Arham_PakFan
    Preference isnt the issue. He said Lara was technically better than Tendulkar. While most experts have said that Tendulkar had a copybook technique while Lara's was flawed due to exaggerated trigger movement and very high backlift. Here comes Holding and says the opposite in 2011.

    Then he comes and says that Sehwag is a mediocre batsman.

    Next is Kohli isnt a great because he hasnt scored runs in Eng. Well Viv Richards who according to Holding is the best batsman, didnot score runs in NZ.

    Hypocrisy and hatred of Holding will be called out. He isnt the only expert out there.
    Last edited by cricketjoshila; 5th August 2018 at 20:04.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    I know he dislikes bcci but what he said does make sense. Like people said focus on ball not bowler, Similarly i would say focus on statement not person who said it.
    Exactly what I just wrote. Thanks.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Some of you have a habit of attacking the messenger and diverting the topic. For once concentrate on what he is saying not who is saying it.
    If anyone in India had concentrated on what he said then Sehwag wouldnt have scored 8k test runs @49.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Preference isnt the issue. He said Lara was technically better than Tendulkar. While most experts have said that Tendulkar had a copybook technique while Lara's was flawed due to exaggerated trigger movement and very high backlift. Here comes Holding and says the opposite in 2011.

    Then he comes and says that Sehwag is a mediocre batsman.

    Next is Kohli isnt a great because he hasnt scored runs in Eng. Well Viv Richards who according to Holding is the best batsman, didnot score runs in NZ.

    Hypocrisy and hatred of Holding will be called out. He isnt the only expert out there.
    Learn to become tolerant and accept different people's views. You will find less hypocrisy, agendas and conspiracies around you. (Thankfully) Not everybody in this world thinks like you.

  75. #75
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    You were saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Preference isnt the issue. He said Lara was technically better than Tendulkar. While most experts have said that Tendulkar had a copybook technique while Lara's was flawed due to exaggerated trigger movement and very high backlift. Here comes Holding and says the opposite in 2011.

    Here is what Holding actually said in full:

    "I rate Lara as a technically better player than Sachin…Sachin has made a lot more runs than Lara, but if I had Sachin and Lara at the two ends, batting against the same bowler, I’m absolutely sure that Lara would perform better than Sachin. I have never seen a batsman play spin and medium-pace better than Lara…And I say that keeping in mind Vivian Richards, who is the best batsman I have seen."

    Which part provides evidence he hates India? The irony is Holding doesn't personally get on with Lara so that further undermines your point. You can disagree with what he said, but the statement he gives is very reasonable and there is nothing there to show he hates India.


    Then he comes and says that Sehwag is a mediocre batsman.



    He actually said this:

    "Look, you can't even begin to compare Sachin Tendulkar and Virender Sehwag. One is right up there and the other is down here,'' said.

    So now you are saying Holding complimenting Tendulkar and saying Sehwag is nowhere near as good as Sachin shows he hates India? But earlier you were saying Holding hates Tendulkar. Which is it?

    It's also worth bearing in mind he made the "mediocre" comments in 2003 after Sehwag averaged 27 in the 2003 WC. Would you not say that was medicore? Even if you disagree, you are yet to show he said it because he hates India.

    Some years later in 2011 Holding said this about Sehwag:

    "I think I came up against better batsmen than Sehwag ever can be. I think people like Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas - I have gone up against better batsman than Sehwag. Sehwag hammers the ball all around, though his technique is a bit ordinary," Holding said.

    "If I was to bowl at Sehwag [...] you would see every ball in line with his body and that is how you've got to bowl to Sehwag. Don't give him room outside his off-stump for him to extend those arms and we'll see how he scores. I am not saying that he will not score runs at all but he certainly won't score as fluently as he is scoring now,"

    I think Holding knows a little bit about bowling and is entitled to say he bowled to better batsmen than Sehwag. Is he wrong? In fact he is very humble in his comments when he says Sehwag could have scored off him. Even if you disagree, how does it show he hates India?



    Next is Kohli isnt a great because he hasnt scored runs in Eng. Well Viv Richards who according to Holding is the best batsman, didnot score runs in NZ.

    Holding is on record as saying Kohli "is certainly a great batsman." This is what he said in full:

    "There is too much difference between Virat and the rest of the Indian batsmen in this line-up. You can see that. I am just waiting for Virat to score runs in England before putting the stamp ‘great’ on him.

    The rest of the batsmen in the Indian team are way behind him. In my time, India had Sunil Gavaskar, Gundappa Viswanath, Mohinder Amarnath and Dilip Vengsarkar who all made runs overseas."

    So actually he was full of praise for both Virat and Indian cricketers. All he said was he will see how Virat performs in England before calling him a "great of the game." Very reasonable comments. Where's the hate?

    Also your Viv example is really desperate. Viv is universally accepted as one of the (if not the) best batsmen in the world. You are now saying Holding saying it shows he hates India?


    Hypocrisy and hatred of Holding will be called out. He isnt the only expert out there.

    The only hatred is coming from the likes of overly sensitive fans such as yourself. You still haven't provided any evidence to support the very serious (but false) allegation that Holding hates India. He has praised and provided constructive criticism in equal measure.

    Also why don't you reference the times he praises India, just one example:

    "Gavaskar and (Gundappa) Viswanath were the two best in the era when I played a bit against India. There were some other guys who were very good too… Dilip Vengsarkar... Jimmy (Mohinder) Amarnath had a very good tour against us, in 1982-83… Different eras, a different set of batsmen."

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    You were saying?
    As a neutral, I don't see any hatred in those comments. All of them were very reasonable and logical.

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    I agree with what Holding is saying. India's weakness in England is their batting and Pandya seems unlikely to play too many match-winning or match-saving innings in this Test series.



  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    As a neutral, I don't see any hatred in those comments. All of them were very reasonable and logical.
    Experts around the world says Tendulkar has better technique while Holding says opposite.

    Calls Sehwag a mediocre player.

    He was againist the IPL.He has repeatedly attacked the IPL.

    In his book by his own admission he has nothing good to say about Bcci.

    For him Kohli isnt a great player.

    He said in the SA after Bumrah had taken 5 wickets in the innings that Bumrah shouldnot be in test team for england as he isnt good enough with the new ball(Something along those lines)

    Next time listen to Holding when he commentates on a India match. The hatred is overt.

    @mak36

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Some of you have a habit of attacking the messenger and diverting the topic. For once concentrate on what he is saying not who is saying it.
    What he is saying is incorrect as well. Pandya is an easy target because he is suppose to do good with both bat and ball. But we have bigger issues in our team. Pandya looked most assured bat after Kohli in 1st test. He did look much better than likes of Vijay, Dhawan or Rahane. I watched the segment on TV when holding was saying all this. He also wanted Pujara to play in XI but Artherton reminded of Pujara's failures playing in county cricket and the reason why he is not in the team.

    Dont take everything that Holding says as Gospel truth. He was a great cricketer but dont regularly keep tab on cricketers like we fans do. In his own words, he spend more time in horse racing these days than cricket. I can gurantee we Indians know more about our cricketers than Mike Holding.

  80. #80
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    India dont produce good all rounders usually


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