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  1. #1
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    Is India the weakest "Number 1 Test team" in history?

    We all know that there has been no outstanding Test cricket team for many years. All the major teams are flawed, and all tend to fail away from home if they fail to arrive early enough to acclimatise.

    I thought it was ludicrous when Pakistan briefly held the Number 1 ranking two years ago. But now that I've seen the 2018 Indians, it no longer seems quite so absurd that Misbah had his brief reign over the Test world.

    In fact, how on earth did a team as poor as the 2018 Indians become the Number 1 ranked Test team?

    The benchmark for the finest Asian team of all time was, as we all know, set by Imran Khan when he returned from long-term injury to resume the Pakistan Test captaincy in March 1985. In the next 7 years until his retirement Pakistan lost just 4 Test matches, 3 of which were in drawn series with the Number 1 ranked West Indies team (the other being in Australia).

    That Pakistan team lost 4 Tests in 7 years. India has already lost 4 Tests this year!

    And, lest we forget, India has not successfully chased a target of more than 100 to win a Test outside Asia for over 14 years!

    So how did we get to the point where a team as poor as the 2018 Indians can hold the Number 1 ranking?

    India's financial takeover of cricket has actually followed shortly after the break-up of its best ever teams.

    The Indian team of the late 1990's to early 2000's was arguably its strongest ever, built as it was on the batting of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. They famously lost 2 of their 3 home Tests against Pakistan in 1999-2000, but they did draw away to a weakened Australia in 2003-04, thanks mainly to the absence of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne.

    India first led the ICC Test Championship in late-2009 to mid-2011 in what was a clear transition period for Australia and South Africa, but few took that lofty rating seriously as the team then lurched from disaster to disaster in Australia and England and even New Zealand in the period 2011-2014.

    India then went back to basics, gorging themselves on home series in doctored conditions, and worked their way back to the Number 1 rating by October 2016.

    Yet the problems never disappeared.

    This is a "Number 1 team" which lost its last Test series in Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa.

    Both India and Pakistan have played 6 Tests in England since 2013.

    India has won 1 and lost 5.
    Pakistan has won 3 and lost 3.

    Much of the problem comes down to arrogance and complacency leading to failure to arrive on Test tours early enough to acclimatise.

    But to be totally honest, most of the problem comes down to the low calibre of the players currently representing India.

    The openers are such lightweights that they don't even deserve the briefest scrutiny.

    But what is Pujara other than a Poor Man's Dravid?

    Kohli is, I accept, a fine player but at the same time he is an ignorant Test captain overseas.

    Rahane, of course, is a Poor Man's Laxman.

    Pandya is not even a Poor Man's Kapil Dev, he is a Poor Man's Chetan Sharma.

    Karthik is not even a Poor Man's Kiran More, let alone MS Dhoni.

    Ashwin has only ever taken 55 Test wickets outside Asia, at an average of 38.

    Ishant Sharma has 125 Test wickets outside Asia at an average approaching 40.

    Umesh Yadav has 33 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of over 40.

    Mohammad Shami has 68 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of 33.

    No wonder they keep losing. This is a team packed full of players who have never achieved anything outside Asia in Test cricket.

  2. #2
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    There is nothing called as a poor no.1 team. All team go through same method and rankings are assigned based on that. Currently there are no stand out teams like Invincible Windies on 80s or Steve Waugh's Australia but you need not be one to be rank 1. India is the best team at home where they absolutely grind opposition and they are competitive away. This is the 1st game under Kohli where India got completely outplayed. They gave SA good fight and also was very competitive in Edgbaston.

    Now lets look into other teams who were recently no.1.

    Pakistan - Got no.1 ranking by default because India test got washed out in windies. They dropped a test vs WI and got whitewashed by SL at home.

    South Africa - Again a team strong at home (not as much as India) but a poor travellers. SL absolutely mauled them recently and they also got whitewashed in India.

    England - Decent at home at best, lost a test vs Pak and weak WI team. They away performances are atrocious, losing 4-0 in India and only rain saved them from whitewash. Got blanked in Ashes downunder as well as losing a test against BD.

    Australia - Perhaps the weakest travelling team at present. They get beateb black and blue everytime they tour overseas.

    So if you consider all factors, India is the strongest team at home and competitive away. So they are deserving no.1 test team.

  3. #3
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    India is great at home against all other sides except Pakistan. Pakistan have beaten them more times then any other side. infact Pakistan rarely get beanten by India in India as record suggests.


    Rudi is a useless umpire get rid off him plzzzzz.

  4. #4
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    Without doubt, the worst number 1 team in cricket's history. Makes one think about the credibility of the ICC rankings.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    We all know that there has been no outstanding Test cricket team for many years. All the major teams are flawed, and all tend to fail away from home if they fail to arrive early enough to acclimatise.

    I thought it was ludicrous when Pakistan briefly held the Number 1 ranking two years ago. But now that I've seen the 2018 Indians, it no longer seems quite so absurd that Misbah had his brief reign over the Test world.

    In fact, how on earth did a team as poor as the 2018 Indians become the Number 1 ranked Test team?

    The benchmark for the finest Asian team of all time was, as we all know, set by Imran Khan when he returned from long-term injury to resume the Pakistan Test captaincy in March 1985. In the next 7 years until his retirement Pakistan lost just 4 Test matches, 3 of which were in drawn series with the Number 1 ranked West Indies team (the other being in Australia).

    That Pakistan team lost 4 Tests in 7 years. India has already lost 4 Tests this year!

    And, lest we forget, India has not successfully chased a target of more than 100 to win a Test outside Asia for over 14 years!

    So how did we get to the point where a team as poor as the 2018 Indians can hold the Number 1 ranking?

    India's financial takeover of cricket has actually followed shortly after the break-up of its best ever teams.

    The Indian team of the late 1990's to early 2000's was arguably its strongest ever, built as it was on the batting of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. They famously lost 2 of their 3 home Tests against Pakistan in 1999-2000, but they did draw away to a weakened Australia in 2003-04, thanks mainly to the absence of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne.

    India first led the ICC Test Championship in late-2009 to mid-2011 in what was a clear transition period for Australia and South Africa, but few took that lofty rating seriously as the team then lurched from disaster to disaster in Australia and England and even New Zealand in the period 2011-2014.

    India then went back to basics, gorging themselves on home series in doctored conditions, and worked their way back to the Number 1 rating by October 2016.

    Yet the problems never disappeared.

    This is a "Number 1 team" which lost its last Test series in Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa.

    Both India and Pakistan have played 6 Tests in England since 2013.

    India has won 1 and lost 5.
    Pakistan has won 3 and lost 3.

    Much of the problem comes down to arrogance and complacency leading to failure to arrive on Test tours early enough to acclimatise.

    But to be totally honest, most of the problem comes down to the low calibre of the players currently representing India.

    The openers are such lightweights that they don't even deserve the briefest scrutiny.

    But what is Pujara other than a Poor Man's Dravid?

    Kohli is, I accept, a fine player but at the same time he is an ignorant Test captain overseas.

    Rahane, of course, is a Poor Man's Laxman.

    Pandya is not even a Poor Man's Kapil Dev, he is a Poor Man's Chetan Sharma.

    Karthik is not even a Poor Man's Kiran More, let alone MS Dhoni.

    Ashwin has only ever taken 55 Test wickets outside Asia, at an average of 38.

    Ishant Sharma has 125 Test wickets outside Asia at an average approaching 40.

    Umesh Yadav has 33 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of over 40.

    Mohammad Shami has 68 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of 33.

    No wonder they keep losing. This is a team packed full of players who have never achieved anything outside Asia in Test cricket.
    Agreed, other than Kohli this Indian test team doesnt have any player which can be considered a star in world cricket or even someone young that can be said to be star in the making. Considering their ages if they ever were to become one this was the time.

    Indivudual record wise there hasnt been such poor team at the top ever I guess.

  6. #6
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    Not sure about worst, because IND in late 1970s was No. 1 for sometime, after beating Packer reject AUS, WIN at home and competing with Bob Simpson's AUS away. Then, PAK had that famous ANZ tour right after being No. 1 (in fact lost a Test to WIN in UAE as well).

    Rather, I say it's the most polarized No. 1 for sure that I have seen. Last time they played at home, they truly played like champions (and smashed Poms by innings losing 6/7 wickets and facing 400-500 1st innings totals - that 1st innings was a factor, because IND had to fight against time as well). Now, they are really on gun sight for a 4-0/5-0 sort of series .... and it's just the start; AUS & NZ tour is still awaiting.

  7. #7
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    Weakest number 1 side? What kind of thread this is lol

  8. #8
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    A sport is always better off when it has one or two clear super stars and everyone else is in the chasing pack.

    Look at Federer/Nadal in Tennis, Tiger in Golf, Manchester United/Barcelona for a long time in Football, Michael Jordan and his Chicago Bulls - all provide glamor, competition, a raising of standards and genuine fear factor.

    Australia in cricket was the last team to do that.

    Cricket today is poor off when its no 1 teams regularly are being dismantled - look at England when they became no 1 and came to UAE, Pakistan when they took off to ANZ, India in England.

    Remember when Steve Waugh declared India the last frontier or something similar - because he wanted to win away from home - and did?

    Genuinely disappointing state of world cricket at the moment - to the point that all teams are taking satisfaction at losses of others - because they themselves aren't good enough.

    I can't see Pakistan filling that gap at all - primarily due to their lack of success in Australia - but hope they put up a good fight in SA.

  9. #9
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    I think if most people accept that India is a crap team and Pakistan is better test team than India and that rankings are totally flawed we will have world peace.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  10. #10
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    Since the turn of the Millennium, Pakistan's team under Misbah for me has to be the worst no. 1. After all they lost a home test against the Windies and then went on to lose the top ranking once they got whitewashed in Aus and NZ lol. It was the same Misbah team that couldn't even beat Zimbabwe but yes lets keep on our green tints and pretend this never happened.

    That batting line up was far worse than this India side against pace.
    Last edited by UN talkz; 13th August 2018 at 19:21.

  11. #11
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    Weakest no 1 Test team in history?

    It's a competition between Australia and Pakistan in 2016.Both were no 1 for a small period.Australia were no 1 for couple of months and Pakistan were no 1 for couple of weeks or so

    Probably Pakistan 2016 side were the weakest no1 team in Test history.

  12. #12
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    This thread feels embarrassing as a Pak fan. India are around 20 points clear and regularly took the no.1 spot over the past decade or so. And consistently challenge around the top.

    Pakistan on the other hand got it partly due to a wash out, and only held it for a few weeks. And eventually slided to 7th. And we got it by bashing at home/UAE too.

    Yet still I was pretty happy by that no.1 though short lived. Was an achievement.

    It feels pretty silly to make these threads. If it were Pakistan we'd be singing their praises and defending the fact they were no.1 even if they were losing like India are.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    There is nothing called as a poor no.1 team. All team go through same method and rankings are assigned based on that. Currently there are no stand out teams like Invincible Windies on 80s or Steve Waugh's Australia but you need not be one to be rank 1. India is the best team at home where they absolutely grind opposition and they are competitive away. This is the 1st game under Kohli where India got completely outplayed. They gave SA good fight and also was very competitive in Edgbaston.

    Now lets look into other teams who were recently no.1.

    Pakistan - Got no.1 ranking by default because India test got washed out in windies. They dropped a test vs WI and got whitewashed by SL at home.

    South Africa - Again a team strong at home (not as much as India) but a poor travellers. SL absolutely mauled them recently and they also got whitewashed in India.

    England - Decent at home at best, lost a test vs Pak and weak WI team. They away performances are atrocious, losing 4-0 in India and only rain saved them from whitewash. Got blanked in Ashes downunder as well as losing a test against BD.

    Australia - Perhaps the weakest travelling team at present. They get beateb black and blue everytime they tour overseas.

    So if you consider all factors, India is the strongest team at home and competitive away. So they are deserving no.1 test team.





    These following two statements do shed a totally different light on the Numero Uno team:


    'England completed their total and utter domination of India in the Lord's Test with a win in just 170.3 overs making it the third-shortest Test in the country over the last 100 years.'

    and this as well: 'Blink and you miss it from India: second-shortest first innings at Lord's in 100 years'

  14. #14
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    What I've learned about cricket in the last few days is that England is the only country which matters.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    it is fun to drive you out of you own threads ... In those 7 yrs Imran could not even Win against his Arch rivals - India -- at home. A certain 16 yr old was a thorn in his side. Further there was no SAF and Eng/AUS were Crap by your own admission elsewhere. Further more Imran lost a Test match to the Minnows - SL in this time period and came close to losing another. Also could not win a Test against the might NZ.

    Going by your own peurile virtue of having beaten SA in SA on the dangerous brute of a pitch at Jo'Burg where Faf was ready to chicken out from and most importantly having to face significantly faster and better fast bowlers that Imran ever played against this Indian team is miles better than that team and would own give a thorough beating down to that team.

    And the underlined is even better when read with these two:

    'England completed their total and utter domination of India in the Lord's Test with a win in just 170.3 overs making it the third-shortest Test in the country over the last 100 years.'

    'Blink and you miss it from India: second-shortest first innings at Lord's in 100 years'
    Last edited by UN talkz; 13th August 2018 at 19:20.

  16. #16
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    Number 1 ranked team lost to the number 5 ranked team, but number 7 ranked team fans are doing bhangra.

  17. #17
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    India is easily the strongest side to held the no 1 spot in test ranking after the 2000 Australian team.

    The way they have been humiliating the touring teams in their own backyard could only be done by a true no 1. We have seen many undeserving teams in the past to rise to the no 1 simply because of some washed out matches. Similarly we have also seen no 1 side to lose home series in a humiliating fashion or to lose tests against minnows.

    Compared to those teams, India have been quite dominating over their tenure as a no 1 team. They were very close to win the series against Southafrica but couldn't do so due to bad luck and poor team selection. But nobody can deny that the series was extremly competitive even though some of the matches in that series were played on doctored green tops.

  18. #18
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    India hasn't lost home series for last 6 years, since 2012. Which was the last team who has done that?


    3WCs, #1 Test #1 ODI team, Fab 9: Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Kumble, VVS, Viru, Zak, MSD, Yuvi

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketworm View Post
    India hasn't lost home series for last 6 years, since 2012. Which was the last team who has done that?
    Poms


    Meri Barbaadiyan Durust Magar...
    Too Bata Kya Tujhe Sawaab Mila...

  20. #20
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    India has been so dominant at home that, even losing 5-0 to England will not cause them to lose their spot as number 1. Which team could have afford that?


    3WCs, #1 Test #1 ODI team, Fab 9: Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Kumble, VVS, Viru, Zak, MSD, Yuvi

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I think if most people accept that India is a crap team and Pakistan is better test team than India and that rankings are totally flawed we will have world peace.
    Question is legit but since a Pakistani asked a question then those who had read two books and consider themselves better than the rest of Pakistani had to respond the way you did.

  22. #22
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    Lost to SL in 2014. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...es/667885.html and plenty of draw series at home.
    Last edited by cricketworm; 13th August 2018 at 21:07.


    3WCs, #1 Test #1 ODI team, Fab 9: Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Kumble, VVS, Viru, Zak, MSD, Yuvi

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage View Post

    Probably Pakistan 2016 side were the weakest no1 team in Test history.
    we became the no1 team without playing at home (Pakistan) quite a big achievement that they became one.

    India can't never achieve the no 1 position without playing at home.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Since the turn of the Millennium, Pakistan's team under Misbah for me has to be the worst no. 1. After all they lost a home test against the Windies and then went on to lose the top ranking once they got whitewashed in Aus and NZ lol. It was the same Misbah team that couldn't even beat Zimbabwe but yes lets keep on our green tints and pretend this never happened.

    That batting line up was far worse than this India side against pace.
    Pretty much a dumb post.
    Please post Pakistan's record during the period they were ranked number 1. Dont spew nonsense about what happened pre or post it.

  25. #25
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Pretty much a dumb post.
    Please post Pakistan's record during the period they were ranked number 1. Dont spew nonsense about what happened pre or post it.
    Whichever angle you look at it, it's still the worst no.1 ranked team I've seen since 2000. No 2 ways about it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Number 1 ranked team lost to the number 5 ranked team, but number 7 ranked team fans are doing bhangra.
    The big question is which is the strongest number 7 ranking team?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    What I've learned about cricket in the last few days is that England is the only country which matters.
    India have not won a series in Australia as test number ones and just got hammered in SA (yes they won one test ,hurrah, but the series was thoroughly lost).

    The fact is, India have been hyped, time and time again, given a special 5 test status (tickets have sold the worst in years) and have looked worse than a touring Sri Lanka side.

    This is the big issue here.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Pretty much a dumb post.
    Please post Pakistan's record during the period they were ranked number 1. Dont spew nonsense about what happened pre or post it.
    He is right. Our 2012-2016 Pakistan team didnít uproot any trees; it was clearly inferior to the 2015-2018 India.

    We lost a Test in Zimbabwe, we were thrashed in South Africa and drew with them in the UAE.

    In early 2014, we were on the brink of losing the UAE series to Sri Lanka but we escaped with a draw thanks to a remarkable session in Sharjah.

    We were whitewashed in Sri Lanka in the summer of 2014, and then we played in the UAE where we demolished Australia but drew with New Zealand.

    We won 2-1 in Sri Lanka in summer of 2015 just like India, and then we beat England 2-0 in the UAE but they were literally minutes away from winning the first Test where we were extremely lucky to escape with a draw.

    We played very well in England and drew the series, but we lost a Test to the West Indies in the UAE and then lost 6 consecutive Tests to in New Zealand, Australia and West Indies.

    So, apart from the 2-2 in England, what miracle did we perform during that period?

    Can you imagine India losing a Test in Zimbabwe, getting whitewashed in Sri Lanka and nearly losing a home series to them?

    Can you imagine West Indies winning a Test in India? Not to mention they also do better than us in Australia.

    If it is a joke to see this Indian team at #1, I canít find a word to describe the 2013-2016 Pakistan team occupying the #1 spot, a team that could barely dominate in the UAE.

    As I have stated many times, the only thing that we have over India is performing better in England. Thatís all.

  30. #30
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    Yes. Pathetic team. No fight. Embarrassing, BCCI should refund their own fans.


    No one likes me cause I am a Paul Heyman guy.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuskash View Post
    The big question is which is the strongest number 7 ranking team?
    A great question. I think it deserves a thread of its own.

  32. #32
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    I saw Indian fans making excuses they did not get enough practice...even though they played more practice matches than that crap number 7 team, right Mamoon?


    No one likes me cause I am a Paul Heyman guy.

  33. #33
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    Pakistan's fluke losses here and there are less criminal than the #1 ranked team winning 2 out of their 28 tests in SA, England, NZ, and Australia.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Pakistan's fluke losses here and there are less criminal than the #1 ranked team winning 2 out of their 28 tests in SA, England, NZ, and Australia.
    So India were ranked number one the entire time. Okay.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    I saw Indian fans making excuses they did not get enough practice...even though they played more practice matches than that crap number 7 team, right Mamoon?
    I think the biggest problem for India has been the absence of Bhuvneshwar (the best swing bowler in Asia) and the decline of Vijay.

    Bhuvneshwar would have been lethal in these conditions, and Vijay was an excellent opener for India in their previous overseas tours. However, it appears that he has lost it completely now.

    I donít think the lack of preparation is the reason. They are simply not at their full strength and one key player doesnít have anything left in the tank.

    They need to inject a couple of fresh faces and carry on. They donít need a major overhaul; they are still the best team in the world.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I think the biggest problem for India has been the absence of Bhuvneshwar (the best swing bowler in Asia) and the decline of Vijay.

    Bhuvneshwar would have been lethal in these conditions, and Vijay was an excellent opener for India in their previous overseas tours. However, it appears that he has lost it completely now.

    I don’t think the lack of preparation is the reason. They are simply not at their full strength and one key player doesn’t have anything left in the tank.

    They need to inject a couple of fresh faces and carry on. They don’t need a major overhaul; they are still the best team in the world.
    Interesting. But don't you think that crappy number 7 team who lost their two middle order batsmen and were also missing their previous match winning leg spinner would do crappy? Since they are number 7 after all.

    Then again, I guess they suck so much it doesn't matter what team they play and they never seen as missing any key players?

    Bhuvi Kumar. I mean Bhuvi McGrath can do with bat and ball.


    No one likes me cause I am a Paul Heyman guy.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    So India were ranked number one the entire time. Okay.
    They have been ranked #1 far more than anyone else. So, yes.

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    Most teams struggle away from home. This Indian team isn't bad but it's clear it isn't a great team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by syedfaraz5 View Post
    we became the no1 team without playing at home (Pakistan) quite a big achievement that they became one.

    This is true.Congrats

    India can't never achieve the no 1 position without playing at home.
    This is also true.After all only Indians are allowed to win at home.India should be embarrassed that they win so handsomely at home.India need to learn from Pakistan and be whitewashed 2-0 against Sri lanka or lose a test against mighty West Indies.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    Interesting. But don't you think that crappy number 7 team who lost their two middle order batsmen and were also missing their previous match winning leg spinner would do crappy? Since they are number 7 after all.

    Then again, I guess they suck so much it doesn't matter what team they play and they never seen as missing any key players?

    Bhuvi Kumar. I mean Bhuvi McGrath can do with bat and ball.
    Yasirís injury was actually a blessing in disguise. He is a proven failure in conditions that donít help spinners.

    Had he played, either Shadab and Fahim would have missed out, and both scored crucial runs to help us win the game.

    Retired players cannot be counted as absentees. You have to deal with them - India lost three better batsmen in quick succession in 2012/2013, but they had to deal with it and move on.

    Also, outside Asia, we cannot forget that Misbah and Younis failed more than they succeed. Misbah scored a ton at Lordís but he was reduced to a walking wicket by the time we were in Australia.

    Younis himself failed in 14 out of the 17 innings that he played in England, New Zealand and Australia.

    Nonetheless, Pakistan deserves credit for doing well in England. They had no business winning the Test at Lordís this summer in conditions that werenít in their favor (unlike 2016). However, performing well in one country means little when you are average elsewhere.

    This fixation with performing in England is sad but understandable, since this is the only thing we have over India. We donít have any bragging rights elsewhere.


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    Indians doctor pitches. They're not like UAE/BD or SL: where pacers have some assistance and a darter would be smacked around all day long. English team of KP won against them.

    Their spinning duo does NOTHING outside these doctored tracks. Also, when is Ashwin's chucking test? Or will ICC do a Harbhajan to him? I guess having money/influence is cool, eh?

    Pakistan of Misbah/YK/Ajmal would have won a series against them. But we'll never know. Speculation.

    Test cricket is about taking 20 wickets. Good teams have bowlers who perform everywhere which team India lacks.

    Also, ICC team rankings are absurd.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Indians doctor pitches. They're not like UAE/BD or SL: where pacers have some assistance and a darter would be smacked around all day long. English team of KP won against them.

    Their spinning duo does NOTHING outside these doctored tracks. Also, when is Ashwin's chucking test? Or will ICC do a Harbhajan to him? I guess having money/influence is cool, eh?

    Pakistan of Misbah/YK/Ajmal would have won a series against them. But we'll never know. Speculation.

    Test cricket is about taking 20 wickets. Good teams have bowlers who perform everywhere which team India lacks.

    Also, ICC team rankings are absurd.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling

    Look at the highest amount of wickets taken. Doctored or not doctored, Pakistan win their on strength of their spin attack and ability play on spin.


    3WCs, #1 Test #1 ODI team, Fab 9: Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Kumble, VVS, Viru, Zak, MSD, Yuvi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post

    This fixation with performing in England is sad but understandable, since this is the only thing we have over India. We donít have any bragging rights elsewhere.


    We have a much better record in NZ, ditto WI, and obviously England in terms of win loss ratio...now coming to Australia and SA, I believe India has won a grand total of 1 test each more than Pakistan despite playing more frequently and having played much more test there. Whether you consider draws as doing better than us is neither here or there since they are not as good as wins; they are more about moral victories and we all know how much that accounts for!

    So, please advise where is it that we suck big time and that India has flourished in terms of wins?

    If you consider draws as moral victories and hence boast about them, then that is your cup of tea, not many consider them huge achievements especially since India is still a hugely disappointing touring team.

  44. #44
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    Hello BCCI, one good way to distract from this tour and till the next IPL rolls out is to play Pakistan in a test series.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketworm View Post
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling

    Look at the highest amount of wickets taken. Doctored or not doctored, Pakistan win their on strength of their spin attack and ability play on spin.
    Fair enough.

    Yasir Shah has been the main reason of our success in UAE.

    Amir has only played 4 and Abbas 2 games in this time tho.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    We all know that there has been no outstanding Test cricket team for many years. All the major teams are flawed, and all tend to fail away from home if they fail to arrive early enough to acclimatise.

    I thought it was ludicrous when Pakistan briefly held the Number 1 ranking two years ago. But now that I've seen the 2018 Indians, it no longer seems quite so absurd that Misbah had his brief reign over the Test world.

    In fact, how on earth did a team as poor as the 2018 Indians become the Number 1 ranked Test team?

    The benchmark for the finest Asian team of all time was, as we all know, set by Imran Khan when he returned from long-term injury to resume the Pakistan Test captaincy in March 1985. In the next 7 years until his retirement Pakistan lost just 4 Test matches, 3 of which were in drawn series with the Number 1 ranked West Indies team (the other being in Australia).

    That Pakistan team lost 4 Tests in 7 years. India has already lost 4 Tests this year!

    And, lest we forget, India has not successfully chased a target of more than 100 to win a Test outside Asia for over 14 years!

    So how did we get to the point where a team as poor as the 2018 Indians can hold the Number 1 ranking?

    India's financial takeover of cricket has actually followed shortly after the break-up of its best ever teams.

    The Indian team of the late 1990's to early 2000's was arguably its strongest ever, built as it was on the batting of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. They famously lost 2 of their 3 home Tests against Pakistan in 1999-2000, but they did draw away to a weakened Australia in 2003-04, thanks mainly to the absence of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne.

    India first led the ICC Test Championship in late-2009 to mid-2011 in what was a clear transition period for Australia and South Africa, but few took that lofty rating seriously as the team then lurched from disaster to disaster in Australia and England and even New Zealand in the period 2011-2014.

    India then went back to basics, gorging themselves on home series in doctored conditions, and worked their way back to the Number 1 rating by October 2016.

    Yet the problems never disappeared.

    This is a "Number 1 team" which lost its last Test series in Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa.

    Both India and Pakistan have played 6 Tests in England since 2013.

    India has won 1 and lost 5.
    Pakistan has won 3 and lost 3.

    Much of the problem comes down to arrogance and complacency leading to failure to arrive on Test tours early enough to acclimatise.

    But to be totally honest, most of the problem comes down to the low calibre of the players currently representing India.

    The openers are such lightweights that they don't even deserve the briefest scrutiny.

    But what is Pujara other than a Poor Man's Dravid?

    Kohli is, I accept, a fine player but at the same time he is an ignorant Test captain overseas.

    Rahane, of course, is a Poor Man's Laxman.

    Pandya is not even a Poor Man's Kapil Dev, he is a Poor Man's Chetan Sharma.

    Karthik is not even a Poor Man's Kiran More, let alone MS Dhoni.

    Ashwin has only ever taken 55 Test wickets outside Asia, at an average of 38.

    Ishant Sharma has 125 Test wickets outside Asia at an average approaching 40.

    Umesh Yadav has 33 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of over 40.

    Mohammad Shami has 68 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of 33.

    No wonder they keep losing. This is a team packed full of players who have never achieved anything outside Asia in Test cricket.
    I agree. It is the weakest but still a no.1 team.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Fair enough.

    Yasir Shah has been the main reason of our success in UAE.

    Amir has only played 4 and Abbas 2 games in this time tho.
    For your success in UAE main reason was Younis Khan. Now that the legend is gone, you will lose more games in UAE.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    We all know that there has been no outstanding Test cricket team for many years. All the major teams are flawed, and all tend to fail away from home if they fail to arrive early enough to acclimatise.

    I thought it was ludicrous when Pakistan briefly held the Number 1 ranking two years ago. But now that I've seen the 2018 Indians, it no longer seems quite so absurd that Misbah had his brief reign over the Test world.

    In fact, how on earth did a team as poor as the 2018 Indians become the Number 1 ranked Test team?

    The benchmark for the finest Asian team of all time was, as we all know, set by Imran Khan when he returned from long-term injury to resume the Pakistan Test captaincy in March 1985. In the next 7 years until his retirement Pakistan lost just 4 Test matches, 3 of which were in drawn series with the Number 1 ranked West Indies team (the other being in Australia).

    That Pakistan team lost 4 Tests in 7 years. India has already lost 4 Tests this year!

    And, lest we forget, India has not successfully chased a target of more than 100 to win a Test outside Asia for over 14 years!

    So how did we get to the point where a team as poor as the 2018 Indians can hold the Number 1 ranking?

    India's financial takeover of cricket has actually followed shortly after the break-up of its best ever teams.

    The Indian team of the late 1990's to early 2000's was arguably its strongest ever, built as it was on the batting of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. They famously lost 2 of their 3 home Tests against Pakistan in 1999-2000, but they did draw away to a weakened Australia in 2003-04, thanks mainly to the absence of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne.

    India first led the ICC Test Championship in late-2009 to mid-2011 in what was a clear transition period for Australia and South Africa, but few took that lofty rating seriously as the team then lurched from disaster to disaster in Australia and England and even New Zealand in the period 2011-2014.

    India then went back to basics, gorging themselves on home series in doctored conditions, and worked their way back to the Number 1 rating by October 2016.

    Yet the problems never disappeared.

    This is a "Number 1 team" which lost its last Test series in Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa.

    Both India and Pakistan have played 6 Tests in England since 2013.

    India has won 1 and lost 5.
    Pakistan has won 3 and lost 3.

    Much of the problem comes down to arrogance and complacency leading to failure to arrive on Test tours early enough to acclimatise.

    But to be totally honest, most of the problem comes down to the low calibre of the players currently representing India.

    The openers are such lightweights that they don't even deserve the briefest scrutiny.

    But what is Pujara other than a Poor Man's Dravid?

    Kohli is, I accept, a fine player but at the same time he is an ignorant Test captain overseas.

    Rahane, of course, is a Poor Man's Laxman.

    Pandya is not even a Poor Man's Kapil Dev, he is a Poor Man's Chetan Sharma.

    Karthik is not even a Poor Man's Kiran More, let alone MS Dhoni.

    Ashwin has only ever taken 55 Test wickets outside Asia, at an average of 38.

    Ishant Sharma has 125 Test wickets outside Asia at an average approaching 40.

    Umesh Yadav has 33 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of over 40.

    Mohammad Shami has 68 Test wickets outside Asia at an average of 33.

    No wonder they keep losing. This is a team packed full of players who have never achieved anything outside Asia in Test cricket.
    I agree, India is not real number 1, it is probably Pakistan.

  49. #49
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    Why is the number seven ranked team being consistently compared to the number one ranked (dominant) team in the world? Do people here realize the inexperience of the Pakistani players? Bangladesh has more experienced players than Pakistan at the moment. For Pakistan to produce brilliance like the Lord's win with such a young team is commendable.

    There's absolutely no reason for this Pakistan team to be compared with India. India has seasoned Test players with a lot of experience. The fact that they are still getting smashed is sad.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Why is the number seven ranked team being consistently compared to the number one ranked (dominant) team in the world? Do people here realize the inexperience of the Pakistani players? Bangladesh has more experienced players than Pakistan at the moment. For Pakistan to produce brilliance like the Lord's win with such a young team is commendable.

    There's absolutely no reason for this Pakistan team to be compared with India. India has seasoned Test players with a lot of experience. The fact that they are still getting smashed is sad.
    I think the issue is Pakistan is being considered as a genuinely better team than India despite being ranked 7.

    However, rankings reflect something else.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    it is fun to drive you out of you own threads ... In those 7 yrs Imran could not even Win against his Arch rivals - India -- at home. A certain 16 yr old was a thorn in his side. Further there was no SAF and Eng/AUS were Crap by your own admission elsewhere. Further more Imran lost a Test match to the Minnows - SL in this time period and came close to losing another. Also could not win a Test against the might NZ.

    Going by your own peurile virtue of having beaten SA in SA on the dangerous brute of a pitch at Jo'Burg where Faf was ready to chicken out from and most importantly having to face significantly faster and better fast bowlers that Imran ever played against this Indian team is miles better than that team and would own give a thorough beating down to that team.
    haha, yeah the likes of Anderson, Woakes and Stokes are faster than the likes of Michael Holding lol

    Imran's team would not lose a match to the current Indian team. Stop living in lala land.

    What 16 year old thorn in his side? Tendulkar scored a few 50's, didn't exactly set the world on fire.

    Eng were not crap, Aus were rebuilding but still had quality players like Border, Dean Jones, a young Waugh, Boon etc. Not a bad twam by any means.

    Imran's team tied a series with arguably the greatest test team of all time- WI. The current Indian team would be lucky to win one session vs the WI team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I think the issue is Pakistan is being considered as a genuinely better team than India despite being ranked 7.

    However, rankings reflect something else.
    How can such an inexperienced team be better than a test team filled with seasoned test cricketers? Itís commendable what these boys achieved in England. I was half expecting them to drop a test to Ireland too, thats how inexperienced this team is right now. Pakistanís test form can be judged after 3-4 years only, otherwise its quite unfair.

    India is number one because it demolishes teams at home. Overseas they are one of the worst cricket teams in the world in test cricket history

  53. #53
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    There is a clear reason for all the comparisons between the Number 7 and Number 1 Test teams.

    The same England team has played against India and Pakistan the same summer. Pakistan played in more difficult Spring conditions, while India is playing in easier late Summer conditions.

    But the thing is, this summerís direct comparison has shown that currently the Pakistan Test Team is far stronger than Indiaís.

    Quite literally, Virat Kohli is the only member of the 2018 Indian touring team who would get into a composite All India Test Team comprised of the 2018 India and Pakistan Test teams that have toured England.

    All 10 of the other players would be Pakistanis.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    There is a clear reason for all the comparisons between the Number 7 and Number 1 Test teams.

    The same England team has played against India and Pakistan the same summer. Pakistan played in more difficult Spring conditions, while India is playing in easier late Summer conditions.

    But the thing is, this summer’s direct comparison has shown that currently the Pakistan Test Team is far stronger than India’s.

    Quite literally, Virat Kohli is the only member of the 2018 Indian touring team who would get into a composite All India Test Team comprised of the 2018 India and Pakistan Test teams that have toured England.

    All 10 of the other players would be Pakistanis.
    Amen brother. Excellent post.

    Whole team India is hiding behind Kohli: 100% of Indian/neutral PPers and 99% of Pakistani PPers are saying that.

    India will have to dig deep to be competitive in remaining 3 games. Otherwise, phaintas of 0-11 times await
    Last edited by AssassinatedDevil; 14th August 2018 at 16:03.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    There is a clear reason for all the comparisons between the Number 7 and Number 1 Test teams.

    The same England team has played against India and Pakistan the same summer. Pakistan played in more difficult Spring conditions, while India is playing in easier late Summer conditions.

    But the thing is, this summer’s direct comparison has shown that currently the Pakistan Test Team is far stronger than India’s.

    Quite literally, Virat Kohli is the only member of the 2018 Indian touring team who would get into a composite All India Test Team comprised of the 2018 India and Pakistan Test teams that have toured England.

    All 10 of the other players would be Pakistanis.
    Its ludicrous and even you know it.

    Pakistan will have a fair chance to go up the rankings when it plays Australia and South Africa later this year and if they win they will.

    Its that simple.

    You dont win matches and sit at 7th in the table.

    Nor do you lose matches and get to 1.

    Basic mathematics is hard to argue against but here you have posters (even yourself being a medicine man) defying logic and making subjective comparisons about which team should be really number 1 because rankings are NOT showing WHAT you BELIEVE.

    Its absolutely shambolic that people are actually even considering a 7th ranked team better than 1.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    How can such an inexperienced team be better than a test team filled with seasoned test cricketers? It’s commendable what these boys achieved in England. I was half expecting them to drop a test to Ireland too, thats how inexperienced this team is right now. Pakistan’s test form can be judged after 3-4 years only, otherwise its quite unfair.

    India is number one because it demolishes teams at home. Overseas they are one of the worst cricket teams in the world in test cricket history
    Yes but the comparisons being thrown right, left and centre look stupid when our own team is at 7th.

    When we beat Australia and trade a good tour of South Afirca later this year we will automatically climb to 4 or 3 and then we can even begin to pass judgments that we are a better test team.

    Thats my only peeve.

    India may be an awful touring team but we arent much better at 7th but its being made as Pakistan should be 1st and India 7th.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Yes but the comparisons being thrown right, left and centre look stupid when our own team is at 7th.

    When we beat Australia and trade a good tour of South Afirca later this year we will automatically climb to 4 or 3 and then we can even begin to pass judgments that we are a better test team.

    Thats my only peeve.

    India may be an awful touring team but we arent much better at 7th but its being made as Pakistan should be 1st and India 7th.
    Why has this debate turned into India Pakistan? No one is disputing our ranking. Question is, is India the worst number one ever?

    And its a pretty emphatic yes. Maybe they can't win but their performance is worse than that of West ndies or Bangladesh in England. Just downright embarrassing. Stop making excuses comparing them to Pakistan (I call it Mamoonism, deflect and roll - though even Pakistan managed to put up more a fight than this great number one team).


    No one likes me cause I am a Paul Heyman guy.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    Why has this debate turned into India Pakistan? No one is disputing our ranking. Question is, is India the worst number one ever?

    And its a pretty emphatic yes. Maybe they can't win but their performance is worse than that of West ndies or Bangladesh in England. Just downright embarrassing. Stop making excuses comparing them to Pakistan (I call it Mamoonism, deflect and roll - though even Pakistan managed to put up more a fight than this great number one team).
    I didnt turn it as such into Pak vs India debate.

    But somehow contemplating if India is the worst number 1 team automatically throws posts in which people start thinking that 7th ranked team is better.

    Question the people, not me.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  59. #59
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    I think too much is being read into first big thrashing of India under Kohli. They competed very well in SA. They lost first test in Eng by 30-40 runs. Before that they won in SL and WI(??). At home they have been dominating all teams.

    Not sure why posters think that this is the worst rank 1 team. I will hold my judgement till they finish Aus tour.


    Under Kohli they had a one really pathetic test match. Thread is an over reaction.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    There is a clear reason for all the comparisons between the Number 7 and Number 1 Test teams.

    The same England team has played against India and Pakistan the same summer. Pakistan played in more difficult Spring conditions, while India is playing in easier late Summer conditions.

    But the thing is, this summer’s direct comparison has shown that currently the Pakistan Test Team is far stronger than India’s.

    Quite literally, Virat Kohli is the only member of the 2018 Indian touring team who would get into a composite All India Test Team comprised of the 2018 India and Pakistan Test teams that have toured England.

    All 10 of the other players would be Pakistanis.
    Ranking is done based on performance at all venues. You are are trying to do it based on 1 out of 10 venues. It's illogical.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    India is worst #1 team, because they learned something valuable from us. Keep recycling the old garbage. Indian cricket system has produced many upcoming stars, but what they traveled with:

    DK : Comparing him to Umar Akmal is an insult to Akmal. DK is around with the team for don't know how many years, may be 14-15 years. Too much talent tag, played 1/2 handful of good innings.

    Ishant Sharma : Somehow managed to pick up wickets, but there are better players than him. He is modern day Agarkar. Keep on taking wickets, keep on losing plot and runs.

    Umesh Yadav : Was there any significant contribution from him in his career so far?

    Murali Vijay : Not a match winning opener, neither a good blocker of the swinging ball. Was always 20s-30s kind of player, with handful of unnoticed centuries in inconsequential matches

    KL Rahul : T20 specialist

    Hardik Pandya : mediocre in both department. Either play 1 batsman or a bowler.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Ranking is done based on performance at all venues. You are are trying to do it based on 1 out of 10 venues. It's illogical.
    Actually itís not. Thatís the whole point.

    You can inflate your ranking by mainly playing Home series - just as India has done.

    And there is also a Lag Effect: South Africa retained an inflated ranking based on Kallis for two years after he retired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Yes but the comparisons being thrown right, left and centre look stupid when our own team is at 7th.

    When we beat Australia and trade a good tour of South Afirca later this year we will automatically climb to 4 or 3 and then we can even begin to pass judgments that we are a better test team.

    Thats my only peeve.

    India may be an awful touring team but we arent much better at 7th but its being made as Pakistan should be 1st and India 7th.
    Pakistan will have an uphill task even against Australia. Iím as patriotic as they come, but this team is too inexperienced to be considered as favourites against any team besides Bangladesh in Test cricket today.

    No comparison between India and Pakistan right now. I love to troll our neighbours, but as it stands, India destroys opposition at home which has led to such a massive difference in points at the top. Even if they lose 5-0, they wonít be displaced from the top. Having said that, our boys should be commended tenfold for achieving what they did against England recently. India have been shown up quite spectacularly by a young Pakistan side, in tougher conditions.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsee View Post
    These following two statements do shed a totally different light on the Numero Uno team:


    'England completed their total and utter domination of India in the Lord's Test with a win in just 170.3 overs making it the third-shortest Test in the country over the last 100 years.'
    So basically, going by the number of overs played, and considering that normally a minimum of 90 overs are meant to be played in a day, this Test match was effectively equivalent to less than two days play, ie a two day Test match.


    ‚ÄúIn individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule‚ÄĚ

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Ranking is done based on performance at all venues. You are are trying to do it based on 1 out of 10 venues. It's illogical.
    Just to expand on my earlier point.

    You can get a high ranking - even Number 1 - without ever playing away. India has.

    The model should be:

    Home Test series loss - 0 points
    Neutral venue loss - 0 points
    Away loss - 0 points
    Home drawn series - 1 point
    Neutral drawn series - 2 points
    Away drawn series - 3 points
    Home series victory - 3 points
    Neutral series victory - 4 points
    Away series victory - 5 points

    That would reward the teams that make the effort to arrive early and prepare properly.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    So basically, going by the number of overs played, and considering that normally a minimum of 90 overs are meant to be played in a day, this Test match was effectively equivalent to less than two days play, ie a two day Test match.



    That is like a few IPL matches, maybe their players mistakenly believed they were at home playing in the tamaasha league and hitting some really average Indian bowlers on phatta roads :-)

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Actually itís not. Thatís the whole point.

    You can inflate your ranking by mainly playing Home series - just as India has done.

    And there is also a Lag Effect: South Africa retained an inflated ranking based on Kallis for two years after he retired.
    Ranking is simply a reflection of how team performed in the last 4 years. It will always have a lag.

    As far as collecting points due to playing home games are concerned, many other teams had even more oppurtunity to collect points.

    Home games for the last 4 years:

    Name:  4years.jpg
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    Indians are far from being similar to Aus or WI, but they have surely done better than others to get to rank 1. If they do worse than others in future then they won't retain rank 1. It's as simple as that.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Just to expand on my earlier point.

    You can get a high ranking - even Number 1 - without ever playing away. India has.

    The model should be:

    Home Test series loss - 0 points
    Neutral venue loss - 0 points
    Away loss - 0 points
    Home drawn series - 1 point
    Neutral drawn series - 2 points
    Away drawn series - 3 points
    Home series victory - 3 points
    Neutral series victory - 4 points
    Away series victory - 5 points

    That would reward the teams that make the effort to arrive early and prepare properly.
    I don't have any opinion on exact model, but your model simply doesn't punish anyone for doing badly in home conditions. Home series loss should result in reduction in points.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Just to expand on my earlier point.

    You can get a high ranking - even Number 1 - without ever playing away. India has.

    The model should be:

    Home Test series loss - 0 points
    Neutral venue loss - 0 points
    Away loss - 0 points
    Home drawn series - 1 point
    Neutral drawn series - 2 points
    Away drawn series - 3 points
    Home series victory - 3 points
    Neutral series victory - 4 points
    Away series victory - 5 points

    That would reward the teams that make the effort to arrive early and prepare properly.
    Still, IND would be by No. 1 by some distance. Take a random calculation in last 4/5 years -

    Home series win against every team (8 in total, I believe - AUS, SAF, ENG, SRL, WIN, NZ, BD & AFG) = 8 X 3 = 24 points
    Away series win in SRL (2), WIN = 3 X 5 = 15 points
    Away series draw at BD = 1 X 3 = 3 points

    Away Loss at ENG (2 - I consider they'll lose this one), AUS, SAF & NZ = 0 points in 5

    Total 42 points in 17 Series, or roughly 2.5 points at average.

    I doubt any other team will be remotely close to that (here peak is 2.5, so remotely close means 0.10-0.15 range; which is equivalent to ~5-7 points in current system).

    India is deserving No. 1 and overall among top 1/2 teams around - in any calculation method, this'll be the outcome.

    Better preparation is indeed essential, no question on that.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Just to expand on my earlier point.

    You can get a high ranking - even Number 1 - without ever playing away. India has.
    India has played 21 home and 21 away games in the last 4 years.

    Name:  4yearsaway.jpg
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    Out of 21 away games, India has played 10 games in Eng, Aus and SA.

    Not sure about your point to be honest. India being ranked one is not due to avoiding playing away.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Still, IND would be by No. 1 by some distance. Take a random calculation in last 4/5 years -

    Home series win against every team (8 in total, I believe - AUS, SAF, ENG, SRL, WIN, NZ, BD & AFG) = 8 X 3 = 24 points
    Away series win in SRL (2), WIN = 3 X 5 = 15 points
    Away series draw at BD = 1 X 3 = 3 points

    Away Loss at ENG (2 - I consider they'll lose this one), AUS, SAF & NZ = 0 points in 5

    Total 42 points in 17 Series, or roughly 2.5 points at average.

    I doubt any other team will be remotely close to that (here peak is 2.5, so remotely close means 0.10-0.15 range; which is equivalent to ~5-7 points in current system).

    India is deserving No. 1 and overall among top 1/2 teams around - in any calculation method, this'll be the outcome.

    Better preparation is indeed essential, no question on that.
    Agree with the bold part totally, but as you described Indians getting rank 1 is not due to luck or avoiding playing away. I would think any method should put them among the top 1-3 teams.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Agree with the bold part totally, but as you described Indians getting rank 1 is not due to luck or avoiding playing away. I would think any method should put them among the top 1-3 teams.
    It's not about home & away; rather it's about performance in contrasting condition - for non Asian teams & Asian teams. IND's advantage is that, they have 3 away tours (SRL, WIN & BD), where they are dominant while they don't play only team that could have given them a fight at home. For ENG, SAF, AUS & NZ winning away among themselves is like IND winnings in SRL. It's a bit shallow to question performance against SRL, particularly in SRL, when they have won last 8 Tests against non Asian teams there (AUS 3, SAF 2, WI 2, ZIM 1), and I can bet if Poms tour there just now after Lord's heroics, they'll be blanked 3-0 as well. Therefore AUS winning in SAF, or ENG winning in SAF or SAF winning in AUS, or ENG winning in NZ, or ...... hardly indicates "away" domination. Last time, I can recall ENG drew series in WI 1-1, in BD 1-1 and their tours to UAE & IND were even more famous than Asian teams touring in UK. If even AFGs get a chance to bat first on a typical Dheradun wicket, with their 3 spinners....... you never know.

    At any method, I am sure IND will end at highest points simply because they are dominant at home and plays lots of game at home. Not the most feared tourists and definitely not even remotely close to that AUS/WIN sides, but quite good in contemporary cricket.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Pakistan will have an uphill task even against Australia. I’m as patriotic as they come, but this team is too inexperienced to be considered as favourites against any team besides Bangladesh in Test cricket today.

    No comparison between India and Pakistan right now. I love to troll our neighbours, but as it stands, India destroys opposition at home which has led to such a massive difference in points at the top. Even if they lose 5-0, they won’t be displaced from the top. Having said that, our boys should be commended tenfold for achieving what they did against England recently. India have been shown up quite spectacularly by a young Pakistan side, in tougher conditions.
    Though its Australia but its in Uae and they dont have Smith or Warner??

    I think its safe to say Australia will get mauled by us.

    At least I am confident about that.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

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    This India definitely isn't. Look at the India team at the start of the decade that got absolutely smashed in England as well as Australia.

  75. #75
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    Its not as good as Aussies or Windies were in their prime but certainly its not the worst.

  76. #76
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    One of the weakest overseas test teams ever full stop

    Their record over the last 2-3 years is shocking enough but to show absolute no fight like they did at lords was utterly embarrassing


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  77. #77
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    Discussion about IK moved over to http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?259172, please continue there.


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadi123 View Post
    This India definitely isn't. Look at the India team at the start of the decade that got absolutely smashed in England as well as Australia.
    Then gotta give it to India, after so many debacles they were holding number 1 position. Make us wanna think what garbage must be other teamsí performances!!!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I thought it was ludicrous when Pakistan briefly held the Number 1 ranking two years ago. But now that I've seen the 2018 Indians, it no longer seems quite so absurd that Misbah had his brief reign over the Test world.

    In fact, how on earth did a team as poor as the 2018 Indians become the Number 1 ranked Test team?

    The benchmark for the finest Asian team of all time was, as we all know, set by Imran Khan when he returned from long-term injury to resume the Pakistan Test captaincy in March 1985. In the next 7 years until his retirement Pakistan lost just 4 Test matches, 3 of which were in drawn series with the Number 1 ranked West Indies team (the other being in Australia).

    That Pakistan team lost 4 Tests in 7 years. India has already lost 4 Tests this year!
    Your proficiency in able to spin statistics to your desired outcome should be commended, you surely have a future in politics.

    As far as I understand, the game of cricket is not only about losing, it is also about winning, but you totally ignore wins as they do not suit your desired result.

    Yes, over their streak of not losing a series (bookended by defeats to NZ and AUS) that started with the 85/86 SL series and ended with the 89/90 series against India, it is true that Pakistan lost only 3 matches.

    However during the same time, they won only 9 matches out of a total of 32 matches played.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...id=7;type=team

    In comparison, in the last 11 series (34 matches) it has played prior to the current series, the Indian team has won a whopping 23 games.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...id=6;type=team

    Let that sink in. Over approximately the same number of games, your idols at their very peak won 9/32 = 28% of the matches they played. Over approximately the same number of games, the current India team has won 68% of their games.

    So how did we get to the point where a team as poor as the 2018 Indians can hold the Number 1 ranking?

    India's financial takeover of cricket has actually followed shortly after the break-up of its best ever teams.

    India then went back to basics, gorging themselves on home series in doctored conditions, and worked their way back to the Number 1 rating by October 2016.
    More rubbish! India would have been #1 if it were not for the washed out final Test against WI on Aug 22nd 2016, PRIOR to the home series against NZ, Eng and Aus. The fact that these teams toured India when it was already near the top meant that India stretched its #1 lead a long way.

    Your idols were able to hold on to their #1 spot for a grand total of 2 months. In comparison the current Indian team is ranked #1 for 22 months already, with no end in sight.

    Both India and Pakistan have played 6 Tests in England since 2013.

    India has won 1 and lost 5.
    Pakistan has won 3 and lost 3.
    Oh yes, more cherry-picked stats. Only England matters...

    @Tusker @cricketjoshila @Varun
    Last edited by Napa; 20th August 2018 at 03:44.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Your proficiency in able to spin statistics to your desired outcome should be commended, you surely have a future in politics.

    As far as I understand, the game of cricket is not only about losing, it is also about winning, but you totally ignore wins as they do not suit your desired result.

    Yes, over their streak of not losing a series (bookended by defeats to NZ and AUS) that started with the 85/86 SL series and ended with the 89/90 series against India, it is true that Pakistan lost only 3 matches.

    However during the same time, they won only 9 matches out of a total of 32 matches played.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...id=7;type=team

    In comparison, in the last 11 series (34 matches) it has played prior to the current series, the Indian team has won a whopping 23 games.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...id=6;type=team

    Let that sink in. Over approximately the same number of games, your idols at their very peak won 9/32 = 28% of the matches they played. Over approximately the same number of games, the current India team has won 68% of their games.



    More rubbish! India would have been #1 if it were not for the washed out final Test against WI on Aug 22nd 2016, PRIOR to the home series against NZ, Eng and Aus. The fact that these teams toured India when it was already near the top meant that India stretched its #1 lead a long way.

    Your idols were able to hold on to their #1 spot for a grand total of 2 months. In comparison the current Indian team is ranked #1 for 22 months already, with no end in sight.



    Oh yes, more cherry-picked stats. Only England matters...

    @Tusker @cricketjoshila @Varun
    actually using his own strategy we can say that since SL blanked Pak in UAE whereas lost badly to India in SL Ind >>> Pak

    But don't hold your breath expecting a reply. The bait has done its job for him


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