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  1. #1
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    Greg Chappell says Ricky Ponting (not Steve Smith) is Australia's best batsman since Don Bradman

    Even as the cricket world is divided over who is the greatest Australian batsman after the peerless Don Bradman, one of them has come out with an observation that could take the debate further forward. At the third annual charity dinner of The Chappell Foundation (TCF) on Tuesday, created to raise funds for the homeless, including those left without shelter after the recent bushfires, Chappell placed Ponting at a very high pedestal.

    In his illuminating welcome remarks, (the transcripts of which have not yet been released to the media), Chappell said, "Ricky Ponting is certainly the best Australian batsman I have seen in my life-time." Ponting was the chief guest on the occasion and the observation had left about 500 cricket aficionados at the iconic SCG, the venue of the dinner, in a daze. Both his brothers - Ian and Trevor - were present on the occasion.

    Chappell has scored 7110 runs at an average of 53.86 in 87 Tests (with 24 centuries) while Ponting, has 13378 runs in 168 Tests @51.85 (with 41 centuries). While Chappell played in the 70s and 80s, Ponting's career spanned from 1995 to 2012. "Critics, connoisseurs and pundits always debate about the greatness of two here in Australia and Greg's remarks have provided further meat to the debate," Darshak Mehta, the head of the foundation, said, revealing that the charity dinner raised over Rs 2 crore.

    Sachin shirt auctioned

    Ponting, one of the most successful captains and regarded in Australia as the most insightful commentator around, did not disappoint during his interview at the event. A significant point he made was that he wanted his children to play team sports and not individual sports yet. Ponting was very big on the positive impact of team sports on his children.

    Among the items auctioned on the occasion were an Indian training shirt autographed by Sachin Tendulkar. It was sold for $ 1400 (Rs 70,000). A cricket bat signed by the winning Indian team from the 2013 ICC Champions Trophy was sold for $ 1550 ( Rs 82500). The autographs of MS Dhoni, Virat Kohli and Rohit Sharma among others' were on the bat.

    Meanwhile, an item which Ravi Shastri consigned on behalf of Kohli (the captain's autographed shirt), was delayed in transit. The shirt, in fact, was couriered from New Zealand, where the Indian team is playing. The foundation has decided to auction it at a future fund-raiser.


    https://punemirror.indiatimes.com/sp...campaign=cppst
    Last edited by MenInG; 13th February 2020 at 16:35.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  2. #2
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    I'd personally pick Greg Chappell, Ricky Ponting and Neil Harvey for the second spot after Bradman.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  3. #3
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    Best test bat is Steven Smith, best bat is a close call between Chappell, Ponting and Australian AB.

  4. #4
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    Probably only talking about past players.

    For me:
    Bradman
    Smith
    Chappell
    Border=Waugh
    Ponting
    Harvey
    Trumper
    McCabe
    Clarke
    Hussey
    Hayden

  5. #5
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    I am surprised that he didn’t say AB.

    Personally I would put GSC himself at #2 after Sir Donald.

  6. #6
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    Nope he is not,I still rate Greg as the second best Australian batsman after Bradman unless Steve scores 10,000 at the average of 60.

  7. #7
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    Itís because he cheated.

    Don Bradman was a revered hero and a soldier, Steve smith is a cheating, sledging brat and instead of taking responsibility for the sandpaper incident - blamed the Ďleadership group!í

  8. #8
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    Most Australians think that Chappell is no 1 after Bradman. I never saw him play, by all accounts he was brilliant. I did see Border, Waugh, M Waugh, Pointing and Smith play and out of them Pointing is the best by a mile.

  9. #9
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    Steve Smith can't be called the second greatest until his career has definitively finished and we get a clearer picture of where his record stands.

    I agree with Chappell. Despite the late decline Ponting was by far the best Australian batsman I have seen. At his peak he was incredible and much more eye-catching than Smith will ever be.

  10. #10
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    Smith trumps Ponting.

    I could give a damn about him cheating.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by khan_aa View Post
    It’s because he cheated.

    Don Bradman was a revered hero and a soldier, Steve smith is a cheating, sledging brat and instead of taking responsibility for the sandpaper incident - blamed the ‘leadership group!’
    Chappell did much the same thing, and he rates himself quite highly from all reports

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Steve Smith can't be called the second greatest until his career has definitively finished and we get a clearer picture of where his record stands.

    I agree with Chappell. Despite the late decline Ponting was by far the best Australian batsman I have seen. At his peak he was incredible and much more eye-catching than Smith will ever be.
    How does being eyecatching matter. Ponting has terrible in India, while Smith has an ATG series there. If you had to pick someone to score a hundred against a top bowling attack, who would you pick. Ponting was a bit of a ftb

  13. #13
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    Ponting is ahead of Smith right now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Most Australians think that Chappell is no 1 after Bradman. I never saw him play, by all accounts he was brilliant. I did see Border, Waugh, M Waugh, Pointing and Smith play and out of them Pointing is the best by a mile.
    Why is Ponting the best?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Ponting is ahead of Smith right now.
    Smith would have to tank from here for that to happen. Smith is an all format, all condition ATG. Top five ever. Already more hundreds than Viv

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Smith would have to tank from here for that to happen. Smith is an all format, all condition ATG. Top five ever. Already more hundreds than Viv
    Ponting would dominate attacks and is vastly superior in ODIs. Smith can surpass him but it won't be easy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    How does being eyecatching matter. Ponting has terrible in India, while Smith has an ATG series there. If you had to pick someone to score a hundred against a top bowling attack, who would you pick. Ponting was a bit of a ftb
    It matters to me. Ponting also played much better bowlers over the course of his career and dominated most.

    As for Smith these things should be taken into account when his career has definitively finished. There's no guarantee that he won't go through a late career slump. As for his performances in India, they would have mattered if Australia actually won the series.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Smith would have to tank from here for that to happen. Smith is an all format, all condition ATG. Top five ever. Already more hundreds than Viv
    Smith has a pretty average record in ODIs and T20Is for a batsman of his caliber. Nothing much to write home about at all.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Smith has a pretty average record in ODIs and T20Is for a batsman of his caliber. Nothing much to write home about at all.
    Sorry didn't mean all format. As a test batsmen top five ever

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    It matters to me. Ponting also played much better bowlers over the course of his career and dominated most.

    As for Smith these things should be taken into account when his career has definitively finished. There's no guarantee that he won't go through a late career slump. As for his performances in India, they would have mattered if Australia actually won the series.
    Ponting played in the weakest bowling era ever. Struggled during the 90's but cashed in during weak 2000's where blokes like Hayden and Shiv averaged 50. Blokes like Jimmy, Broad, Jofra, Rabada, Boult, Philander, Ashwin/Jadeja (in India) are top class bowlers and will be remembered as greats. During Ponting's peak only Murali, Shoaib and Pollock for a bit were this good. Ponting was mediocre in the 90's, which contained the best bowlers. Smith has mastered the hardest conditions (India, England) against good attacks.

    Smith also has no huge hole in his record like Ponting in India

    How do aesthetics impact performance. Otherwise Shaun Marsh > Smith. We go by what a player has done, not how they do it


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Why is Ponting the best?
    He had what all the others had and he was with Viv the best player of fast bowling of his generation, Much better player of fast bwoling than either Lara or SRT

  22. #22
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    Totally agree with Chappal here Picky Ponting is a second best AUSSIE batsman after bradman

  23. #23
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    Clearly he is saying that the bowlers Punter faced where of another level as compared to the bowlers that are dominated by Batsman of the modern age.

    This is why I think Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting are indeed the greatest Top 3 of all time no matter what any minister of propaganda proposes here.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Smith trumps Ponting.

    I could give a damn about him cheating.
    Cool story, you donít give a damn, but the rest of Australia and itís public does.

    Putting Bradman and smith in the same sentence is a disgrace to Bradman who was a decorated soldier.

    Ponting wasnít a saint either but smithís record is forever tarnished with the ban

  25. #25
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    My order still will be

    1. Bradman
    2. Greg
    3. Vic Trumer
    4. Ponting
    5. AB
    6. Hervey
    7. Smith
    8. Steve
    9. Hayden
    10. Clarke

    May be, by the end of his career Smith will cross Hervey and AB, but Ponting is tough call.

    Keeping KR Miller at 6, AT Aussie Test XII will have five batsmen and I'll keep AB at 5

    1. Trumper
    2. Hervey
    3. Bradman
    4. Greg
    5. AB
    6. Miller
    7. Gilchrist
    8. *Benaud
    9. Warne
    10. Lillee
    11. McGrath/RR Lindwall

  26. #26
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    Imo, it's gonna be like Sachin vs Kohli. For Aussie, Ricky also symbolizes a golden period for them...

  27. #27
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    Steve Smith is a disgraceful cheat.

  28. #28
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    That said, Ponting had a terrible record against spin, Smith dominates spin much better but obviously doesn't have Ponting's back foot game against pace.

  29. #29
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    Ponting was brilliant across formats and this is why he could be rated superior to Smith even when Smith retires.

    But as a test bat, I think Smith has an edge. His performance in India really stands out in front of anything that Ponting did in India in tests. I don't think anyone would doubt that from 2015 onwards, the toughest job for a batsmen is to tour India and draw/win a test match in India and come back with plenty of runs behind you.

    Smith's performance was simply an ATG level when you compare it with how AB de Villiers, Amla, Joe Root, Cook, Warner, Williamson and even Ross Taylor fared in their series.

    Both Ashwin and Jadeja are averaging almost 20-21 at home and the sample now is enough as well, so you gotta credit Smith for how he has been the best batsmen to tour India in past six years. And then he amassed whole lot of runs in England tour and at same time averages almost 75 at home. Certainly, a bigger contender than Ponting for me but let him finish off his career but the way I see, it's only a matter of time from here.

    Smith can't match Ponting in ODIs though.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 13th February 2020 at 21:17.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Ponting was brilliant across formats and this is why he could be rated superior to Smith even when Smith retires.

    But as a test bat, I think Smith has an edge. His performance in India really stands out in front of anything that Ponting did in India in tests. I don't think anyone would doubt that from 2015 onwards, the toughest job for a batsmen is to tour India and draw/win a test match in India and come back with plenty of runs behind you.

    Smith's performance was simply an ATG level when you compare it with how AB de Villiers, Amla, Joe Root, Cook, Warner, Williamson and even Ross Taylor fared in their series.

    Both Ashwin and Jadeja are averaging almost 20-21 at home and the sample now is enough as well, so you gotta credit Smith for how he has been the best batsmen to tour India in past six years. And then he amassed whole lot of runs in England tour and at same time averages almost 75 at home. Certainly, a bigger contender than Ponting for me but let him finish off his career but the way I see, it's only a matter of time from here.

    Smith can't match Ponting in ODIs though.

    Joe Root also had a good series in India 2016,He scored almost 500 runs in that tour.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by khan_aa View Post
    Cool story, you donít give a damn, but the rest of Australia and itís public does.

    Putting Bradman and smith in the same sentence is a disgrace to Bradman who was a decorated soldier.

    Ponting wasnít a saint either but smithís record is forever tarnished with the ban
    The Australians are pretty fickle.

    They might remember it as a wasp sting with the glory of regaining the Ashes and future success at Smithís hand.

    Remember, all it took for Amir to win Pakistanís applause was one spell against India. (I know the cricketing culture between the two nation is different but the fan mindset is the same everywhere).

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    Joe Root also had a good series in India 2016,He scored almost 500 runs in that tour.
    With all due respect, England got much flatter wickets than other three team. But Root did well on those flat decks, should have scored a 100 more as he got 490 runs in 10 innings.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Ponting played in the weakest bowling era ever. Struggled during the 90's but cashed in during weak 2000's where blokes like Hayden and Shiv averaged 50. Blokes like Jimmy, Broad, Jofra, Rabada, Boult, Philander, Ashwin/Jadeja (in India) are top class bowlers and will be remembered as greats. During Ponting's peak only Murali, Shoaib and Pollock for a bit were this good. Ponting was mediocre in the 90's, which contained the best bowlers. Smith has mastered the hardest conditions (India, England) against good attacks.

    Smith also has no huge hole in his record like Ponting in India

    How do aesthetics impact performance. Otherwise Shaun Marsh > Smith. We go by what a player has done, not how they do it
    None of the guys you mentioned are anything special yet. Certainly not special enough to be remembered as greats. Jimmy and Broad are very good but they will be remembered more for their durability then striking any kind of fear into the hearts of batsmen. Also Ponting had gotten very good by the early 2000s a time when Waqar, Wasim were playing. There was ofcourse Shane Bond, Kumble, Vaas, Ntini, Harmison, all outstanding bowlers. Later in his career he even played Steyn. Just because Ponting's own side had the best bowlers in the world is hardly his fault.

    You seem to have trouble accepting an opinion. Aesthetics matter to me because they show me just how naturally gifted a batsman is. And when it comes to playing the pull-shot Smith will NEVER be able to emulate the class of Ponting.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    He had what all the others had and he was with Viv the best player of fast bowling of his generation, Much better player of fast bwoling than either Lara or SRT
    And the worst player of spin bowler of any ATG batsmen. So? Didn't have performances that match Smith

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    None of the guys you mentioned are anything special yet. Certainly not special enough to be remembered as greats. Jimmy and Broad are very good but they will be remembered more for their durability then striking any kind of fear into the hearts of batsmen. Also Ponting had gotten very good by the early 2000s a time when Waqar, Wasim were playing. There was ofcourse Shane Bond, Kumble, Vaas, Ntini, Harmison, all outstanding bowlers. Later in his career he even played Steyn. Just because Ponting's own side had the best bowlers in the world is hardly his fault.

    You seem to have trouble accepting an opinion. Aesthetics matter to me because they show me just how naturally gifted a batsman is. And when it comes to playing the pull-shot Smith will NEVER be able to emulate the class of Ponting.
    I agree that many of those bowlers are not grets, but they will be when they retire. Otherwise we cannot say a performance against Ambrose in 1992 hold much weight. Vaas, Ntini and Harmison are nit of the class of the bowlers mentioned and Ashwin/Jadeja are equal if not better than Kumble in Asia, and Smith tamed them their

    I agree that aesthetics are nice, but if you had to pick a player to score a century against a good attack, does Ponting's nicer looking game make him more likely to do so

  36. #36
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    If weíre talking quality of bowlers Smith Chappell and Ponting respectively played against, though, Bradman himself never had to play against Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, etc.

  37. #37
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    Chappell is right.

    Ponting had a bigger impact than Smith. Smith had many soft runs.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  38. #38
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    It never even crossed my mind that anyone might think that it was Smith. He is far too flawed against the short ball - heís a Luxury Version of Graeme Hick.

    If I had to list Australiaís greatest batsmen I would say:

    1. Don Bradman
    2. Archie Jackson (look him up)
    3. Greg Chappell
    4. Victor Trumper
    5. Ricky Ponting
    6. Allan Border
    7. Neil Harvey
    8. Bob Simpson
    9. Steve Smith
    10. Mark Waugh

  39. #39
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    he is wrong. Both Ponting and Smith are better than Bradman. But the truth is cricketing blasphemy, especially in Australia.

  40. #40
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    If we want to be objective about it and compare batsman with respect to their peers, Smith is far ahead of all of his peers in tests, don't think Ponting achieved that. Secondly, Smiths record is superior, and there is no run inflation to speak of in Tests. Therefore, I would take Smith above Ponting as a test batsman.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    he is wrong. Both Ponting and Smith are better than Bradman. But the truth is cricketing blasphemy, especially in Australia.
    Ask Jeff Thomson.

    He bowled at full tilt - in the 150ís - to Don Bradman in 1975.

    Bradman was 66 years old, hadnít batted for years and was wearing a suit and no pads. And Thommo says that he was the best batsman he ever bowled to. He was much quicker to identify the line and the length than Greg Chappell, whom Thommo netted with for club and country.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Ask Jeff Thomson.

    He bowled at full tilt - in the 150’s - to Don Bradman in 1975.

    Bradman was 66 years old, hadn’t batted for years and was wearing a suit and no pads. And Thommo says that he was the best batsman he ever bowled to. He was much quicker to identify the line and the length than Greg Chappell, whom Thommo netted with for club and country.
    No need to ask anyone. The Australian cricketers glamourize bradman for nationalist reason, not cricketing reason. You are free to believe bradman superior

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Ponting was brilliant across formats and this is why he could be rated superior to Smith even when Smith retires.

    But as a test bat, I think Smith has an edge. His performance in India really stands out in front of anything that Ponting did in India in tests. I don't think anyone would doubt that from 2015 onwards, the toughest job for a batsmen is to tour India and draw/win a test match in India and come back with plenty of runs behind you.

    Smith's performance was simply an ATG level when you compare it with how AB de Villiers, Amla, Joe Root, Cook, Warner, Williamson and even Ross Taylor fared in their series.

    Both Ashwin and Jadeja are averaging almost 20-21 at home and the sample now is enough as well, so you gotta credit Smith for how he has been the best batsmen to tour India in past six years. And then he amassed whole lot of runs in England tour and at same time averages almost 75 at home. Certainly, a bigger contender than Ponting for me but let him finish off his career but the way I see, it's only a matter of time from here.

    Smith can't match Ponting in ODIs though.
    Top post. Ponting significantly better as an ODI bat put Smith better at test cricket. Ratings depend on how we weight formats. Similar to Smith/Kohli debate

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    No need to ask anyone. The Australian cricketers glamourize bradman for nationalist reason, not cricketing reason. You are free to believe bradman superior
    Name one reason why they are better than Bradman. Bradman's average against the hardest bowling ever (bodyline) was 56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    It never even crossed my mind that anyone might think that it was Smith. He is far too flawed against the short ball - he’s a Luxury Version of Graeme Hick.

    If I had to list Australia’s greatest batsmen I would say:

    1. Don Bradman
    2. Archie Jackson (look him up)
    3. Greg Chappell
    4. Victor Trumper
    5. Ricky Ponting
    6. Allan Border
    7. Neil Harvey
    8. Bob Simpson
    9. Steve Smith
    10. Mark Waugh
    And Ponting had a significantly more severe weakness against high quality spin.

    The only time Smith has looked very poor against the short ball was at Lords, on a very up and down pitch against a very good spell of fast bowling

    In the recent series vs NZ smith only god out to the short ball when Australia was in control, it didn't threaten him when he just left it alone. If his sole purpose against it was to not get out, he wouldn't

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Chappell is right.

    Ponting had a bigger impact than Smith. Smith had many soft runs.
    Smith has the least soft runs of basically any batsmen. Unlike Ponting, he plays in a poor team where he is the only good batsmen overseas. His average in the 1st innings of tests - when runs aren't soft and the game is there for the taking - is over 100. He has proved himself in the toughest conditions, unlike Ponting.

    Explain what you mean by soft runs

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    If we’re talking quality of bowlers Smith Chappell and Ponting respectively played against, though, Bradman himself never had to play against Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, etc.
    first of all, Ponting didn't succeed against great bowling, played in most batting friendly era ever

    I agree Bradman didn't face, outside of Bodyline, a great standard of fast bowling. As a result I believe an adjusted average should be 90ish. This is based on how he handled bodyline well, as well as his strength against high quality spin bowling (did well against O'Reilly, Grimmett, Verity), three of the greatest spinners ever (top dix in my book)

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Name one reason why they are better than Bradman. Bradman's average against the hardest bowling ever (bodyline) was 56
    Tell me how bodyline series had the hardest bowling ever in entire cricketing history?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Tell me how bodyline series had the hardest bowling ever in entire cricketing history?
    No protective gear combined with now illegal fielding positions that removed basically any chance of scoring
    Larwood also a legit ATG pacer

  50. #50
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    Well he isn't wrong.

    Is he?

    Let's take the example of Kohli. He's so so good across all the formats, most dominant batsman in the world.

    To the extent that he has already surpassed Tendulkar.

    Nobody now doubts that he's better than Tendulkar and the greatest batsman from Ind.

    But, Smith's performances haven't been on the Kohli level. So, obviously people are reluctant to call him better than Ponting. It's understandable.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    No protective gear combined with now illegal fielding positions that removed basically any chance of scoring
    Larwood also a legit ATG pacer
    Scoring was difficult doesn't mean bowling was hard.There were no protective gear doesn't mean bowling was hard. I want to know if the bowlers of that time had the greatest skill of all time in entire cricketing history.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    And the worst player of spin bowler of any ATG batsmen. So? Didn't have performances that match Smith
    Ponting dominated Murali in Sri Lanka, which is kinda at variance with the point of him being utterly hopeless against spin. He had a specific problem against Harbhajan Singh, it wasn't anything more than that.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    My order still will be

    1. Bradman
    2. Greg
    3. Vic Trumer
    4. Ponting
    5. AB
    6. Hervey
    7. Smith
    8. Steve
    9. Hayden
    10. Clarke

    May be, by the end of his career Smith will cross Hervey and AB, but Ponting is tough call.

    Keeping KR Miller at 6, AT Aussie Test XII will have five batsmen and I'll keep AB at 5

    1. Trumper
    2. Hervey
    3. Bradman
    4. Greg
    5. AB
    6. Miller
    7. Gilchrist
    8. *Benaud
    9. Warne
    10. Lillee
    11. McGrath/RR Lindwall
    So, (just based on facts) how is greg better than smith?
    Smith has done everything he possibly can, including retaining ashes singlehandedly.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Ponting played in the weakest bowling era ever. Struggled during the 90's but cashed in during weak 2000's where blokes like Hayden and Shiv averaged 50. Blokes like Jimmy, Broad, Jofra, Rabada, Boult, Philander, Ashwin/Jadeja (in India) are top class bowlers and will be remembered as greats. During Ponting's peak only Murali, Shoaib and Pollock for a bit were this good. Ponting was mediocre in the 90's, which contained the best bowlers. Smith has mastered the hardest conditions (India, England) against good attacks.

    Smith also has no huge hole in his record like Ponting in India

    How do aesthetics impact performance. Otherwise Shaun Marsh > Smith. We go by what a player has done, not how they do it
    He didnít struggle in the nineties, he was averaging 47 or so up until the big guns (Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh) retired. So that was very good. After that he became a run machine averaging 60+.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    So, (just based on facts) how is greg better than smith?
    Smith has done everything he possibly can, including retaining ashes singlehandedly.
    Nothing to do with Labuschagne, Cummins etc.?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Nothing to do with Labuschagne, Cummins etc.?
    Cummins. Yes
    Labuschagne. No

    2019 ashes was a fast bowlers series infact each and every fast bowler did well, smith was the lone warrior in the batting department.
    Saying that he was singlehandedly responsible won't be too far fetched.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    He didn’t struggle in the nineties, he was averaging 47 or so up until the big guns (Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh) retired. So that was very good. After that he became a run machine averaging 60+.
    Sorry you are correct. Averaged 45 including good averages vs WI, SA, Pak. Will have to increase my opinion of him, still believe he is below Smith

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Scoring was difficult doesn't mean bowling was hard.There were no protective gear doesn't mean bowling was hard. I want to know if the bowlers of that time had the greatest skill of all time in entire cricketing history.
    By bowling was hard, I meant a combination of pitches, gear and fielding positions, as well as strong bowling. I will rephrase 'hardest batting conditions in cricket history"

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Ponting dominated Murali in Sri Lanka, which is kinda at variance with the point of him being utterly hopeless against spin. He had a specific problem against Harbhajan Singh, it wasn't anything more than that.
    While he was solid away against SL, he was humiliated when he toured India. If he performed better they would have won 2001. No top batsmen has looked as clueless as he did against Harbajan

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Cummins. Yes
    Labuschagne. No

    2019 ashes was a fast bowlers series infact each and every fast bowler did well, smith was the lone warrior in the batting department.
    Saying that he was singlehandedly responsible won't be too far fetched.
    Labuschagne averaged fifty in the Ashes, and top scored for Australia in both innings of the third test.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    So, (just based on facts) how is greg better than smith?
    Smith has done everything he possibly can, including retaining ashes singlehandedly.
    Itís a bit subjective call, hence I canít prove or satisfy you here. I give my explanations- itís up to you to take or not -

    Test cricket started almost 150 years back and it gradually evolved with time. Every generation had itís superstars and discussing on data point is moot. We can judge players through relativity (how dominant against their peers) & I use one more subjective filter - quality/competitiveness of a particular era.

    To me, cricket started to professionalise after WW II (Luke many other sports - youíll laugh at watching the soccer or tennis superstars of pre war era), it reached its peak between 1970s to late 1990s, and this was the era without any globalisation (read free meal) - Tendulkar had Bradman like figures in few games he played against Kenya, imagine what he could have done in an era when there are just 3-4 quality sides.

    I rate top players of that era highest, means to me players with similar stats between that era will be superior than other eras - for example, I rate Mazid Khan & Kim Hughes way, way better than their average of ~38. Viv was the supreme batsman of that era, followed by Greg, but as a pure batsman on batting technique & completeness, there is hardly anyone better than Greg.

    Smith is a run machine in this era when everyone is heíll bound to tie hands of the pacers, but his batting against genuine pace & bounce do suggest that he would have a SIGNIFICANT discount on his stats, starting career 35 years back.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Ask Jeff Thomson.

    He bowled at full tilt - in the 150’s - to Don Bradman in 1975.

    Bradman was 66 years old, hadn’t batted for years and was wearing a suit and no pads. And Thommo says that he was the best batsman he ever bowled to. He was much quicker to identify the line and the length than Greg Chappell, whom Thommo netted with for club and country.
    Wrong, he was bowling gentle leg spin, 1977-78. http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/sto...le-outswingers

    Multiple links and videos of him talking about this. This is the problem with myth making, people assume facts aren't important.

  63. #63
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    2000s was the easiest batting decade ever and Ponting flourished, along with the likes of Sanga, Kallis, Dravid, YK and Chanderpaul. Take batting stats with a pinch of salt when talking about that decade.

    Last 6 years in test cricket have been low scoring (backed by stats) as all countries are making more result oriented pitches, difficulty at par with the 90s. Smith hasn't made soft runs, what he has done in India and last year's Ashes trumps anything Ponting did in his career. But let us wait and watch how Smith ends his career, tricky to rate players when they are still active.

    In ODIs obviously Punter is a league ahead, it all comes down to how much weightage to give to the formats.
    Last edited by Swashbuckler; 14th February 2020 at 20:06.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Well he isn't wrong.

    Is he?

    Let's take the example of Kohli. He's so so good across all the formats, most dominant batsman in the world.

    To the extent that he has already surpassed Tendulkar.

    Nobody now doubts that he's better than Tendulkar and the greatest batsman from Ind.

    But, Smith's performances haven't been on the Kohli level. So, obviously people are reluctant to call him better than Ponting. It's understandable.
    Firstly I would say it's heavily debatable whether Kohli is better than Sachin. Kohli's ODI record is about equal considering run inflation in that format, I would give Sachin the edge. In tests his record is not superior than Sachin by any distance.

    If we're talking tests, Smith's record is far superior to Kohli's performances by a distance.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Wrong, he was bowling gentle leg spin, 1977-78. http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/sto...le-outswingers

    Multiple links and videos of him talking about this. This is the problem with myth making, people assume facts aren't important.
    On a rest day during the Indian tour in 1977-78, Don Bradman was around in the nets. I was bowling only legspin to him, but he had a couple of young blokes trying to get him out. With no pads, no nothing ... for a 68-year-old, he belted the hell out of them on a turf wicket. And he hadn't batted for 20 years. I went back in and said, "Why isn't this ******* playing with us tomorrow?" That's how good I thought he was.
    Don't expect him to reply.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Ask Jeff Thomson.

    He bowled at full tilt - in the 150’s - to Don Bradman in 1975.

    Bradman was 66 years old, hadn’t batted for years and was wearing a suit and no pads. And Thommo says that he was the best batsman he ever bowled to. He was much quicker to identify the line and the length than Greg Chappell, whom Thommo netted with for club and country.
    That is clearly an anecdote that has gotten taller and taller in telling over the years. If you seriously believe that Thomson bowled full tilt to a 60 yr old geezer, you might as well strap a shield on Bradman and call him Captain Australia.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Wrong, he was bowling gentle leg spin, 1977-78. http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/sto...le-outswingers

    Multiple links and videos of him talking about this. This is the problem with myth making, people assume facts aren't important.
    Bradman wonít have survived couple of overs, even in 1937 (when he was 29) facing Thompson of 1977 at full pace. Itís a laughable comparison to be honest.

    Bradman & Hobbs are greatest batsman in history in a time zero world because they were several level above their peers, and we have to respect them. But, still there are few old footages available- if anyone believes that with that sort of technique & reflex these guys could have survived pacers bowling at 150k, one can hardly help.

    Is there any reason to believe that when Fred Perry & Don Budge looks like clowns trying to mock tennis players (compared to Rogers or Rafa or Novak), by some magic from same era Bradman, Hobbs or Larwood were different?

  68. #68
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    smith is tiers above ponting. ponting is superior in odi. In tests smith is way ahead.

    Test cricket is what matters.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    smith is tiers above ponting. ponting is superior in odi. In tests smith is way ahead.

    Test cricket is what matters.
    100 world cricket experts overwhelmingly voted Ponting the cricketer of the decade in 2010, Smith must be near god level for you.

  70. #70
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    Ponting in his peak was a monster.

    Loved watching him bat, I can't say that about Smith.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    100 world cricket experts overwhelmingly voted Ponting the cricketer of the decade in 2010, Smith must be near god level for you.
    Ponting was obviously cricketer of decade in 2000s, what is surprising? Smith simply is more clutch and more prolific in tests IMO.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Ponting was obviously cricketer of decade in 2000s, what is surprising? Smith simply is more clutch and more prolific in tests IMO.
    Ponting was the best player in the decade comprising Tendulkar, Lara and many more, Smith has surpassed them all then.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Ponting was the best player in the decade comprising Tendulkar, Lara and many more, Smith has surpassed them all then.
    He will, only a matter of time in tests. Just because he debuted in 10s doesn't mean he has to average 80 to surpass them.

    Tendulkar and Lara were on their way to become legends by '99 itself. What a shame an elite test batter like Ponting averages a laughable 3.xx in a test series in India. Imagine a 26- year old failing like this now. Clearly a level below Lara and Tendulkar by all means.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    He will, only a matter of time in tests. Just because he debuted in 10s doesn't mean he has to average 80 to surpass them.

    Tendulkar and Lara were on their way to become legends by '99 itself. What a shame an elite test batter like Ponting averages a laughable 3.xx in a test series in India. Imagine a 26- year old failing like this now. Clearly a level below Lara and Tendulkar by all means.
    You and I can have our say on who is/was best but if you get 100 cricket experts to vote then Ponting comes in a clear winner.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    100 world cricket experts overwhelmingly voted Ponting the cricketer of the decade in 2010, Smith must be near god level for you.
    come back to me when ponting has single handedly won australia a game away from home vs a top 3 team. Smith is GOAT. better than everyone.

    I have never seen a player as good as this guy.

    Only virat can challenge him and the winner will be decided in the next series vs australia

    I would still put smith above sachin, Lara, border and pretty much everyone out there.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Bradman won’t have survived couple of overs, even in 1937 (when he was 29) facing Thompson of 1977 at full pace. It’s a laughable comparison to be honest.

    Bradman & Hobbs are greatest batsman in history in a time zero world because they were several level above their peers, and we have to respect them. But, still there are few old footages available- if anyone believes that with that sort of technique & reflex these guys could have survived pacers bowling at 150k, one can hardly help.

    Is there any reason to believe that when Fred Perry & Don Budge looks like clowns trying to mock tennis players (compared to Rogers or Rafa or Novak), by some magic from same era Bradman, Hobbs or Larwood were different?
    Agree with you, applies to all sports. Jesse Owens wouldn't get NCAA scholarship in today's USA, Lasker would be an IM or at best lowly rated GM today. Dhyan Chand would struggle to get into zonal team.

    I respect past greats because they distinguished themselves from their peers and had a role in development/growth of the sport. I even don't mind when they are included in the GOAT race, not their fault that know-how, technology, nutrition has advanced so much in the last 70 years. But when some people come and say that 70 years old Bradman after 30+ years of no cricket turned up in nets and belted peak Thommo bowling at 150 clicks, without any pads, gloves, helmet, even box, are we fools or what? May be a nice dinner story with the wife but won't go unchallenged here. No objectivity, no logic. I don't see this level of myth making in other sports especially when it comes from pre-WW-II era. Don't know whether this idiotic and misleading overrating of the past is more of a cricket thing or British thing.

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    Agreed

    I don't think ponting would have been bounced out cheaply by Neil Wagner 4 times in a row that too at home!!

    Last time when i saw a good pitch in Australia was during the 2013 Ashes series. since then they produce only batting paradises!.

    Smith has scored 20+ hundreds whenever AUS batting first but his performances in 4th innings have been so poor! has averaged like 30 something with zero hundred!

    Ofcourse he had a wonderful ashes series in England last year but was hardly tested by the english bowlers who were playing without their best swing bowler Anderson. The pitches weren't so green tops unlike the ones they prepared during the indian series or the 2015 ashes where AUS were bowled out for 60 at Trent bridge!.

    Also, Ponting had faced far more superior bowlers compared to who smith is facing now!.
    No need to mention ponting's LOIs and WC performances.
    So I would pick ponting over smith anyday!.


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