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  1. #1
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    Misbah-ul-Haq = Pakistan's greatest ever Batsman while being Captain

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    Most 50+ scores as Pakistan Test Captain.
    Misbah ul Haq = A league above the rest.

    Out of those 43 50+ as Test as Captain:
    3 in England.
    3 in New Zealand.
    1 in South Africa.
    5 in West Indies.
    3 in Bangladesh.
    4 in Zimbabwe.
    2 in Sri Lanka.
    22 in UAE vs England (6), Australia (3), South Africa (5), New Zealand (1), Sri Lanka (5), West Indies (2).
    0 in Australia.
    0 in Pakistan.
    0 in India.

  2. #2
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    Rather than just saying he can never be talked about in the same way as Inzi, Yousuf, Younis, Miandad etc you have to consider no one has ever performed as consistently and dependably as him with the bat while being Captain of Pakistan over such a long period of time. This is how he deserves to be remembered - as Pakistan's greatest batsman while being Captain. His Test batting record deserves extra appreciation and respect when you consider virtually all his reliable batting performances came with the added pressures and expectation of captaincy. 8 of his 10 Test centuries came as Captain and the first two that didn't were in a high profile series against India in 2007 when he was kind of starting out his Test career properly. It is a big deal to be able to perform to this standard while being Captain as we often talk about how captaincy will affect one's own game.

  3. #3
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    No, that would be the great Haneef Mohammad, God bless his soul, who is also Pakistan's greatest ever batsman.

  4. #4
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    I think a lot of Misbah's runs came in useless situations. He flopped during most of the crucial stages.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  5. #5
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    How many of those games were won because of his batting? Majority of Misbah's wins came because of Ajmal and then Yasir. Not because of the runs he scored. To win a test match you need 20 wickets....

    Misbah was a great servant to Pakistan Cricket and I'm glad he got the chance to be captain...but the test wins were not because of his batting alone. Let's be honest here.
    Last edited by sshakir411; 18th April 2020 at 10:10.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    How many of those games were won because of his batting? Majority of Misbah's wins came because of Ajmal and then Yasir. Not because of the runs he scored. To win a test match you need 20 wickets....

    Misbah was a great servant to Pakistan Cricket and I'm glad he got the chance to be captain...but the test wins were not because of his batting alone. Let's be honest here.

    Let me see, out of 7 of this 10 Hundreds were in Wins, and at least couple of iconic innings to say the least, the first one was the Hundred against Australia, which was the fastest innings of the modern era, then hundred against England at Lords. Then there was an infamous maghrib chase, and the calm hand he played against Sri Lanka when were chased that record total. But some people I dont know why get all riled up when Misbah's name is mentioned.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faizhassan View Post
    Let me see, out of 7 of this 10 Hundreds were in Wins, and at least couple of iconic innings to say the least, the first one was the Hundred against Australia, which was the fastest innings of the modern era, then hundred against England at Lords. Then there was an infamous maghrib chase, and the calm hand he played against Sri Lanka when were chased that record total. But some people I dont know why get all riled up when Misbah's name is mentioned.
    10? But he only had 8 hundreds tho.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    10? But he only had 8 hundreds tho.
    I am talking about his career tally.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    Rather than just saying he can never be talked about in the same way as Inzi, Yousuf, Younis, Miandad etc you have to consider no one has ever performed as consistently and dependably as him with the bat while being Captain of Pakistan over such a long period of time. This is how he deserves to be remembered - as Pakistan's greatest batsman while being Captain. His Test batting record deserves extra appreciation and respect when you consider virtually all his reliable batting performances came with the added pressures and expectation of captaincy. 8 of his 10 Test centuries came as Captain and the first two that didn't were in a high profile series against India in 2007 when he was kind of starting out his Test career properly. It is a big deal to be able to perform to this standard while being Captain as we often talk about how captaincy will affect one's own game.
    Wont go down to well with the hate brigade.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Wont go down to well with the hate brigade.

    This is what baffles me, hate is too strong for an emotion. Misbah's contribution goes beyond the cricket field too. No controversy and for 2016 England tour alone, he is the greatest Pakistani captain after Imran.

  11. #11
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    greatest captain of pakistan for sure along with khan.

    so underrated.

    he is a better captain than kohli. kohli just manages a strong team. if misbah managed a strong indian side he would dominate more.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    greatest captain of pakistan for sure along with khan.

    so underrated.

    he is a better captain than kohli. kohli just manages a strong team. if misbah managed a strong indian side he would dominate more.

    Well One thing I like about Kohli is that how he manages his fast bowlers, but one cant compare Misbah to Kohli due to resources at their disposal.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faizhassan View Post
    Well One thing I like about Kohli is that how he manages his fast bowlers, but one cant compare Misbah to Kohli due to resources at their disposal.
    exactly what I mean.

    kohli has a strong indian side at his disposal.

    misbah had a much weaker side and still took them to number 1.
    He should be worshipped in my opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    exactly what I mean.

    kohli has a strong indian side at his disposal.

    misbah had a much weaker side and still took them to number 1.
    He should be worshipped in my opinion.
    Being ranked number 1 for 3-5 years consistently is a feat worth mentioning. Only Misbah die hards will advocate the worshipping of a number 1 ranking for a few months, that number 1 ranking collapsed to number 6-7 in no time after the team got whitewashed in New Zealand and Australia a few months later.

  15. #15
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    Look that is not the point, the fact remains that we were a team on exile, with no infrastructure, he made the best of what he had got at that point of time. Our talent cannot compete at global level. He made Pakistan into a force at their home ground, whereas we use to lose even home matches. And strangely, one of the few Pakistani captains who actually got better due to additional responsibility.

    Furthermore, contrary to other Pakistani sides, there were less negative headlines about Misbah's team as compared to what we get these days.

  16. #16
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    Yep.

    As a batsman, his game rose to just another level whenever he was under pressure.

    Probably the greatest example of "leading from the front" in our cricketing history (as a batsman).

    Very un-Pakistan when it comes to batting grit and determination, as he was our specialist collapse-stopper and innings-rebuilder, even as the captain.

    MoYo had a lot of batting talent and was pleasing on the eyes. He was however a coward as a batsman and not a pressure player.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Yep.

    As a batsman, his game rose to just another level whenever he was under pressure.

    Probably the greatest example of "leading from the front" in our cricketing history (as a batsman).

    Very un-Pakistan when it comes to batting grit and determination, as he was our specialist collapse-stopper and innings-rebuilder, even as the captain.

    MoYo had a lot of batting talent and was pleasing on the eyes. He was however a coward as a batsman and not a pressure player.
    Really? Only 8 centuries out of 43 50+ scores say otherwise..


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  18. #18
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    Massively revisionist thread.

    We had Misbah as Pakistan's best captain and greatest bastsman-captain. Where are the victories under him in South Africa, Australia, NZ, World Cups as a consequence of his brilliance?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    Massively revisionist thread.

    We had Misbah as Pakistan's best captain and greatest bastsman-captain. Where are the victories under him in South Africa, Australia, NZ, World Cups as a consequence of his brilliance?
    Actually we won in NZ in 2011. (1-0) I agree SA and Aus performances wasn't great but even in those series we were very close to winning a test and/or getting draws.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    Where are the victories under him in South Africa, Australia
    Places where no Pakistan team has won a series before.
    At least he has won an ODI series in SA as Captain.

  21. #21
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    Selective statistics this. Not that Misbah was bad or that he was bad as captain, but it's clear that Inzi, Miandad and Hanif had better records as captains. Choosing 50+ scores when he played the most matches makes no sense.

  22. #22
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    Interesting stats. Would love to see a comparison between different teams

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Yep.

    As a batsman, his game rose to just another level whenever he was under pressure.

    Probably the greatest example of "leading from the front" in our cricketing history (as a batsman).

    Very un-Pakistan when it comes to batting grit and determination, as he was our specialist collapse-stopper and innings-rebuilder, even as the captain.

    MoYo had a lot of batting talent and was pleasing on the eyes. He was however a coward as a batsman and not a pressure player.
    MoYo was a world class batsman.

    Misbah is a legend, at least for me. I will always rate him second greatest Asian test captain, only behind Imran Khan.

  24. #24
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    In tests as a captain and as a player he was great.

    Quoting an article, written in 2016 (so overall stats may have shifted a little as he retired a bit later). in Misbah's tenure of 48 tests Pakistan won 24, lost 13 and Drew 11. In the 6 years prior to this, pakistan played 48, won 12, lost 22, drew 14.

    Misbah was probably our best test captain ever after Imran. Inzi his predecessor was far overrated IMO, he wasn't terrible but with the squad we had back then we should have easily done better, but we did worse than under Misbah.

    As a batsman while he was captain again underrated as OP has shown. In all honesty I thought he was a better bat than Younis was in the same period as Misbah captained despite the overall average. Just more under pressure, scoring more consistently knocks. Even though YK was great.

    It's because of his test success, which is why I do criticise him in ODIs a lot. His test winning record is great, yet his ODI winning record is awful. If we praise him for his test W/L record, we can't ignore his bad one in ODIs. Why was he not sacked from ODI captaincy as a result? And as a batsman in ODIs he was a little slow despite scoring against tough opposition and being our best ODI bat during the period, but why did he not play at 3 more? Should have tried to become that anchor player.

    Regardless though, a great player, and easily our best player by a country mile over the formats from 2010-2017
    Last edited by BoomBoomCricket; 19th April 2020 at 13:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Why was he not sacked from ODI captaincy
    9 50s in 26 ODI innings in 2011.
    Pakistan's leading ODI run scorer in 2012.
    Leading ODI run scorer worldwide in 2013.
    By the time Pakistan played an ODI series in 2014 it was August and World Cup was in Feb 2015.
    Plus the advantage for PCB of having the same Captain in Tests and ODIs in Pakistan's culture.

    Impossible for him to be sacked given the above and silly to suggest he should have been.

  26. #26
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    In 2013 Pakistan won 7 ODI series in a calendar year vs Ind, Scot, Ire, WI, Zim, SA and SL in UAE.
    All under him.
    He scored 15 50s in 32 ODI innings in this calendar year. The most 50+ ever in a calendar year.
    How could he be sacked? @ads101
    Results only went downhill in 2014 when Ajmal's action got called.
    Any team would suffer with that.

  27. #27
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    the best ever captain of pakistan.

    salute to the king.

    one of the toughest physically fittest players of all time.

    Go watch his training videos. He still runs 10 miles a day at 43 years of age!!!!

    In tests he did the best he could with the team at his disposal. He infact overachieved.

    in odi he is legend.

    if india had misbah as captain for odi's specifically then india would have won every icc tournamnet they have played in. India lost countless semis and finals in crucial.stages. Misbah would have taken them to the next level in odis.

    Consummate professional and an absolute stud of a player.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    the best ever captain of pakistan.

    salute to the king.

    one of the toughest physically fittest players of all time.

    Go watch his training videos. He still runs 10 miles a day at 43 years of age!!!!

    In tests he did the best he could with the team at his disposal. He infact overachieved.

    in odi he is legend.

    if india had misbah as captain for odi's specifically then india would have won every icc tournamnet they have played in. India lost countless semis and finals in crucial.stages. Misbah would have taken them to the next level in odis.

    Consummate professional and an absolute stud of a player.
    That's ridiculous. Misbah is a very poor ODI batsman for the era he played in, an SR of 73 is really bad. He wouldn't make the team as a batsman cause he would lose them games with that SR.

  29. #29
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    I have noticed that all the Indians have utmost respect for Misbah-ul-Haq.
    I don't know why.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by viveks View Post
    SR of 73 is really bad.
    A person who doesn't understand cricket would make such a comment. Lacks any context or appreciation of the tactical aspects of the game.
    Can't make runs consistently at a fancy 95-120 SR on a regular basis and play long innings like he had to when you don't have the strongest of batting line ups around you.
    Cricket and batting isn't that easy.

    - Situations he batted in.
    - Lack of batting quality around him.
    - Reliance on him to deliver as the leading batsman in the side and therefore the importance of his wicket to the side.
    - Having a good bowling attack at his disposal and therefore not needing to score so much or so quickly.
    - His role and style as a batsman that he was adopting for the team.
    - Playing in the UAE where the average run rate is lower compared to other parts of the world.

    At the end of the day 25 of his 42 ODI 50s came in wins. That is what matters most. Plus ODIs in 2011-2014 were more low scoring.
    Last edited by BoomBoomCricket; 19th April 2020 at 16:18.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    A person who doesn't understand cricket would make such a comment. Lacks any context or appreciation of the tactical aspects of the game.
    Can't just score consistently at a fancy 95-120 SR on a regular basis and play long innings like he had to when you don't have the strongest of batting line ups around you.
    Cricket and batting isn't that easy.

    - Situations he batted in.
    - Lack of batting quality around him.
    - Reliance on him to deliver as the leading batsman in the side and therefore the importance of his wicket to the side.
    - Having a good bowling attack at his disposal and therefore not needing to score so much or so quickly.
    - His role and style as a batsman that he was adopting for the team.
    - Playing in the UAE where the average run rate is lower compared to other parts of the world.

    At the end of the day 25 of his 42 ODI 50s came in wins. That is what matters most. Plus ODIs in 2011-2014 were more low scoring.
    Pakistan won most of those games because they had a great ODI bowling line up. Not saying that Misbah shouldn't have played as they probably had no options, but it doesn't prove that Misbah is not a limited ODI batsman and would have lost games for other sides.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by viveks View Post
    Pakistan won most of those games because they had a great ODI bowling line up. Not saying that Misbah shouldn't have played as they probably had no options, but it doesn't prove that Misbah is not a limited ODI batsman and would have lost games for other sides.
    You think he couldn't play more explosively if he wanted or the team needed him?
    Faisalabad Wolves hit 13 Sixes in the Champions League T20 in 2013 from 3 games.
    All of them were hit by Misbah.
    He was a big six hitter of spin.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    Places where no Pakistan team has won a series before.
    At least he has won an ODI series in SA as Captain.
    Also a test series in WI. The two things I will give him full credit for. But not to praise him to the moon and back is over the top.

  34. #34
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    Great insights. Many posters who dont like Misbah wont take it too well as Misbah is the villain to them in cricket who they like to blame for everything and seeing how well he did as a batsman while captaining might not set well with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Great insights. Many posters who dont like Misbah wont take it too well as Misbah is the villain to them in cricket who they like to blame for everything and seeing how well he did as a batsman while captaining might not set well with them.
    Okay, so he's had his time, why does he need to come back to torture us?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by viveks View Post
    Pakistan won most of those games because they had a great ODI bowling line up. Not saying that Misbah shouldn't have played as they probably had no options, but it doesn't prove that Misbah is not a limited ODI batsman and would have lost games for other sides.
    Actually Pakistan had a pretty mediocre ODI pace bowling lineup under Misbah. Ajmal was the only main weapon under his sleeve supported by Afridi and Hafeez along with one pacer in Junaid for couple of years. Pacers which Misbah had were Irfan, Wahab, Rahat Ali, Sohail Khan, Bilawal Bhatti, Anwer Ali etc. Some were good on their day but none of them was anything special in any format.

    2012-2015 was the period with most dearth of talent I have seen in a Pakistani white ball team for one reason or another. Pace bowing was mediocre even in red ball cricket in that period. I know most of the domestic players we had in that period in both batting and bowling and other than few names which could have been tried there wasnt much available as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Okay, so he's had his time, why does he need to come back to torture us?
    If the fans didnt get torture under previous coach by losing to Srl 2-0 at home, loosing to NZ 2-1 at home. Winning only one test series post Misbah and loosing every single ODI series except against Srl, Zim and WI than how come they are so easily tortured now? We have just won our 2nd test series in last 2 or so years.

    If this is not hatred towards and individual I dont know what is. He has started in the role because PCB appointed him, if we wont deliver he will have to leave just like any other coach. Saying its a torture when he has just started while we were loosing everything under previous coach and wasn’t calling that a torture is just reinforcement of the fact that this thread is about.
    Last edited by Titan24; 19th April 2020 at 18:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Actually Pakistan had a pretty mediocre ODI pace bowling lineup under Misbah. Ajmal was the only main weapon under his sleeve supported by Afridi and Hafeez along with one pacer in Junaid for couple of years. Pacers which Misbah had were Irfan, Wahab, Rahat Ali, Sohail Khan, Bilawal Bhatti, Anwer Ali etc. Some were good on their day but none of them was anything special in any format.

    2012-2015 was the period with most dearth of talent I have seen in a Pakistani white ball team for one reason or another. Pace bowing was mediocre even in red ball cricket in that period. I know most of the domestic players we had in that period in both batting and bowling and other than few names which could have been tried there wasnt much available as well.
    Maybe the players weren't anything special(Ajmal excluded ofc) but the bowling line up as a whole was the most successful of the period. Probably because of Ajmal, but the support he got with spinners and pacers here and there was pretty good.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by viveks View Post
    That's ridiculous. Misbah is a very poor ODI batsman for the era he played in, an SR of 73 is really bad. He wouldn't make the team as a batsman cause he would lose them games with that SR.
    he is a natural born leader. if he had the calibre of players virat had at his disposal then I am certain indian would have won a icc tournament post 2013 instead of choking in the final stages of a world event.

    misbah is a legend.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    A person who doesn't understand cricket would make such a comment. Lacks any context or appreciation of the tactical aspects of the game.
    Can't make runs consistently at a fancy 95-120 SR on a regular basis and play long innings like he had to when you don't have the strongest of batting line ups around you.
    Cricket and batting isn't that easy.

    - Situations he batted in.
    - Lack of batting quality around him.
    - Reliance on him to deliver as the leading batsman in the side and therefore the importance of his wicket to the side.
    - Having a good bowling attack at his disposal and therefore not needing to score so much or so quickly.
    - His role and style as a batsman that he was adopting for the team.
    - Playing in the UAE where the average run rate is lower compared to other parts of the world.

    At the end of the day 25 of his 42 ODI 50s came in wins. That is what matters most. Plus ODIs in 2011-2014 were more low scoring.
    this is the truth. Even the bowling was only strong due to ajmal. He dint have the greatest of bowling attacks yet he always pushed top teams to their limits and almost beat them on a consistent basis.


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    The other thing that annoys me is people saying he overstayed his welcome in the team .

    He was Pakistanís leading Scorer in the 2015 World Cup . Averaged 50 .

    Averaged 60 in the West Indies series where he got an epic farewell , and led us to a historic victory .

    Man was class and a rare breed who excelled between the age of 35-42 .

    His record in Australia as a batsman is very poor and also poor in South Africa in tests . But good in New Zealand and Australia .

    In Odi in SENA conditions he averaged the following

    England - averages 86
    New Zealand- Average 54
    South Africa - 47
    Australia - 55

    They are bloody good stats !!

  42. #42
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    take out bangladesh,zimbabwe and recalculate.
    also note that playing conditions in 2010s differ from the 1970s. averages & strike rates have to be normalized to remove biases, otherwise comparisons are biased and unethical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    9 50s in 26 ODI innings in 2011.
    Pakistan's leading ODI run scorer in 2012.
    Leading ODI run scorer worldwide in 2013.
    By the time Pakistan played an ODI series in 2014 it was August and World Cup was in Feb 2015.
    Plus the advantage for PCB of having the same Captain in Tests and ODIs in Pakistan's culture.

    Impossible for him to be sacked given the above and silly to suggest he should have been.
    Should have been retained as a player as he was performing no question. Might have batted even better if relieved from captaincy though. But his successes with the bat in all formats, his test captaincy record, they are not the same. You can't make excuses for that because of the other stuff he did.

    I am not even saying his ODI captaincy record is his fault. Or even his captaincy was bad. But the record was awful. The players whether from their own incompetency did not perform great under Misbah and continuously fell away, Misbah was in crisis mode nearly every game having to try and save his team with the bat, or merely just trying to get them to 50 overs.

    He captained for 4/5 straight years in ODIs. With bad results mostly throughout. Plenty of time to get someone else in that period. Sometimes just a change is better than anything else. As I said, Misbah may have batted even better without the pressure, his SR certainly dipped as captain. We won a Champions Trophy under Sarfraz who was pretty new to captaincy. And Sarfraz didn't exactly do that much, his players stepped up. We should have at least tried something else, you never know what might change, just accepting the losses and just carrying on is not great. Sometimes a fresh outlook, a change in management/captaincy can shake things up again. Instead it felt we were just resigning to our fate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    If the fans didnt get torture under previous coach by losing to Srl 2-0 at home, loosing to NZ 2-1 at home. Winning only one test series post Misbah and loosing every single ODI series except against Srl, Zim and WI than how come they are so easily tortured now? We have just won our 2nd test series in last 2 or so years.

    If this is not hatred towards and individual I dont know what is. He has started in the role because PCB appointed him, if we wont deliver he will have to leave just like any other coach. Saying its a torture when he has just started while we were loosing everything under previous coach and wasnít calling that a torture is just reinforcement of the fact that this thread is about.
    It's also easy to be selective in what we present to suit our own agendas. Lets forget about the CT17 win, our greatest triumph for a decade shall we. An achievement conveniently brushed under the carpet by Misbanistas.

    Under Misbah, we probably would have lost the ODI series against Srl, WI and struggled against Zim. Its a shame you and his supporters can't see Misbah for what he is. But if there's anything he's good at, that's pulling the wool over people's eyes.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    The other thing that annoys me is people saying he overstayed his welcome in the team .

    He was Pakistanís leading Scorer in the 2015 World Cup . Averaged 50 .

    Averaged 60 in the West Indies series where he got an epic farewell , and led us to a historic victory .

    Man was class and a rare breed who excelled between the age of 35-42 .

    His record in Australia as a batsman is very poor and also poor in South Africa in tests . But good in New Zealand and Australia .

    In Odi in SENA conditions he averaged the following

    England - averages 86
    New Zealand- Average 54
    South Africa - 47
    Australia - 55

    They are bloody good stats !!
    That is true. I think he has the best ODI batting average of all time from PAK when it comes to scoring in SENA - England, NZ, SA, AUS (or one of the best).

    And also one of the highest in ICC tournaments.

    The world needs more neutral and knowledgable people like you, a GreenKhan rather than a @Khan12 who always tries to bring up selective stuff but will ignore this great SENA and ICC tournament record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    That is true. I think he has the best ODI batting average of all time from PAK when it comes to scoring in SENA - England, NZ, SA, AUS (or one of the best).

    And also one of the highest in ICC tournaments.

    The world needs more neutral and knowledgable people like you, a GreenKhan rather than a @Khan12 who always tries to bring up selective stuff but will ignore this great SENA and ICC tournament record.
    Thanks bro .

    Misbah averaged 50 in ICC tournaments. He always turned up .
    He did not get a one day century and some of this is to do with his own shortcomings as a batsman . But his SENA stats in One day cricket are phenomenal and led Pakistan to some good wins with very good knocks whilst they were chasing in SENA.
    I recall two in South Africa and a 90 odd not out in New Zealand .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    Thanks bro .

    Misbah averaged 50 in ICC tournaments. He always turned up .
    He did not get a one day century and some of this is to do with his own shortcomings as a batsman . But his SENA stats in One day cricket are phenomenal and led Pakistan to some good wins with very good knocks whilst they were chasing in SENA.
    I recall two in South Africa and a 90 odd not out in New Zealand .
    Yes its true, Misbah always turned up to pad up his own stats whilst batting at 70 SR, making us lose most games and dragging us down to No.9 in the rankings.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    That is true. I think he has the best ODI batting average of all time from PAK when it comes to scoring in SENA - England, NZ, SA, AUS (or one of the best).

    And also one of the highest in ICC tournaments.

    The world needs more neutral and knowledgable people like you, a GreenKhan rather than a @Khan12 who always tries to bring up selective stuff but will ignore this great SENA and ICC tournament record.
    Don't tag me please till you reply to my posts don't hide behind other posters. None of you misbah supporters reply. So no point of debating.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 20th April 2020 at 00:17.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Yes its true, Misbah always turned up to pad up his own stats whilst batting at 70 SR, making us lose most games and dragging us down to No.9 in the rankings.
    3 out of his 5 winning world cup fifties are against the mighty UAE, Zimbabwe and Kenya. Lost us 2 world cups by himself. That takes some doing. Plus 1 century in his entire career outside SC. No odi century.

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    Its a shame that Misbah is being compared with the likes of Inzimam, Imran, Hanif . He is not even in top 5 of Pakistan's best test batsmen. Less said about the ODIs the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    3 out of his 5 winning world cup fifties are against the mighty UAE, Zimbabwe and Kenya. Lost us 2 world cups by himself. That takes some doing. Plus 1 century in his entire career outside SC. No odi century.

    Had he not scored 70 albeit at a slow pace Pakistan would not have reached 220 against Zimbabwe .In the context of that match along with Wahabs quick fire 50 it meant Pakistan had a total to defend which ultimately meant they won the match.
    So carrying on playing down someoneís achievements based on the opposition with out putting any context on the match situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    Had he not scored 70 albeit at a slow pace Pakistan would not have reached 220 against Zimbabwe .In the context of that match along with Wahabs quick fire 50 it meant Pakistan had a total to defend which ultimately meant they won the match.
    So carrying on playing down someone’s achievements based on the opposition with out putting any context on the match situation.
    Any decent batsmen can score 100 off 123 balls. But he was rubbish even that was too much. Had he been not so rubbish he would have got a 100 after facing so many balls. That inning was rubbish even in context of the game we were lucky wahab scored a 50 without that we would have lost regardless off his pathetic 71 off 123 balls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Any decent batsmen can score 100 off 123 balls. But he was rubbish even that was too much. Had he been not so rubbish he would have got a 100 after facing so many balls. That inning was rubbish even in context of the game we were lucky wahab scored a 50 without that we would have lost regardless off his pathetic 71 off 123 balls.
    So your saying without this knock Pakistan wonít have won the match ?

  54. #54
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    In terms of being the "greatest ever batsman while Pakistan captain"...Ö.

    1. He played half those Tests on stone dead wickets in the UAE - no other Pakistan skipper did.

    2. He batted at number 5, when Kookaburra balls have gone old overseas.

    It's basically the same argument as the "Asad Shafiq is the most prolific Number 6 of all time".

    If you think that Misbah is an ATG batsman then you think that Asad Shafiq is the greatest Number 6 in history. You can't have one without the other.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    So your saying without this knock Pakistan won’t have won the match ?
    What I am saying is that his pathetic knock had cost us the game till wahab turned it around. One of the worst odi inning ever 71 off 123 is pathetic no matter how you put. That's even awful in 1970s let alone 2015.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    In terms of being the "greatest ever batsman while Pakistan captain"...….

    1. He played half those Tests on stone dead wickets in the UAE - no other Pakistan skipper did.

    2. He batted at number 5, when Kookaburra balls have gone old overseas.

    It's basically the same argument as the "Asad Shafiq is the most prolific Number 6 of all time".

    If you think that Misbah is an ATG batsman then you think that Asad Shafiq is the greatest Number 6 in history. You can't have one without the other.
    Exactly at least shafiq has tests hundreds in SA, Aus unlike misbah.

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    I think Misbah was an outstanding batsman captain.

    However, the award for the best batsman captain of Pakistan goes to Inzi, by a LONG way. Younger posters may not have seen a great deal of Inzi, but the man was a sensational match winner. And unlike Misbah, Inzi won us a LOT of ODI matches too. Inzi was absolutely breathtaking with the bat his batting ability as captain is unrivalled in Pakistani cricket. In my view, very few in world cricket have matched him as a captain batsman.

    In Inzi's era, Ponting had a mouth watering batting line up to help him, as did Ganguly. Inzi just and MoYo who was excellent but second fiddle by a long way to Inzi. What Inzi did was effectively face 11 men in the opposition and defeat them by himself. If Inzi played well - which he did with remarkable consistency - the opposition would lose no matter how well they played. Inzi scored match winning runs in situations that most other players would have crumbled.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Misbah and in Tests, he was light years ahead of Inzi as a tactician. However Misbah simply isn't in the same galaxy when it comes to Inzi's match winning ability with the bat.
    Last edited by Usman; 20th April 2020 at 07:29.

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    Revisionist thread

    The batsman as captain qualifier is clutching at straws to begin with but even with that metric Inzamam, Javed Miandad and Hanif Muhammad are all better than Misbah


    #MPGA

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    As captain, Misbah averaged 12 in Australia, 22 in South Africa. Poorly in SL too (but as a team we were good). So he clearly did not step up as captain in the tough conditions when things around him weren't great

    Now the important thing is that his blind supporters will say and propagate the myth is that he did well in the series we did well in UAE (65 avg) and England (40 avg - not eye popping by any means) making it seem like he was the reason for the success in these places. Yes he performed well but it was definitely not a situation where he was the one reason for our batting success in these series. The batting did not depend on him at all. The credit cannot go to him.

    Under his captaincy the following batsmen had the below records in these countries where he has done well:

    Younis Khan: England: 49, UAE: 59
    Azhar Ali - Eng: 42, UAE: 58
    Asad Shafiq - 39, UAE: 47
    Sarfraz Ahmed: England: 32, UAE: 46
    Ahmed Shehzad: UAE:58
    Hafeez: UAE:52

    The data shows that as a unit, the Pakistani batting did great in these conditions. There is literally no case to make that Misbah the batsman stepped up or rose to the occasion in Test cricket even in the series we did well in. He was an important cog in the side but certainly not the reason.

    Misbah failed to step up as a leader in the Pakistani batting lineup when things weren't going great and the conditions were tough as in South Africa, Australia etc.
    Last edited by Slog; 20th April 2020 at 09:05.


    #MPGA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    It's also easy to be selective in what we present to suit our own agendas. Lets forget about the CT17 win, our greatest triumph for a decade shall we. An achievement conveniently brushed under the carpet by Misbanistas.

    Under Misbah, we probably would have lost the ODI series against Srl, WI and struggled against Zim. Its a shame you and his supporters can't see Misbah for what he is. But if there's anything he's good at, that's pulling the wool over people's eyes.
    Selective? Mickey was good in T20s and CT17 as I have mentioned in number of threads and results show that. However, selecting only CT17 would be called selective as based upon that criteria Intikhab Alam should be considered the greatest coach in Pakistan as Pak won 1992 WC and 2009 T20 WC when he was in the management.

    We just won ODI series against Srl under Misbah so I am not sure what you are talking about. I would try to once again mention that I am not a big Misbah fan (Yes I do appear so when there is so much hatred around a person) but even taking things on face value show that he did well as red ball captain and batsman. Stats and performances of Pak team were there to be seen irrespective of the reasons. Pak never lost a home test series under Misbah, so unless one is hell bent on hating someone thats a tremendous achievement especially when we see what was happening in last 2-3 years.

    Anyways his career as a player is not of much importance now as he is in the role of a coach. Yes people still confuse that being a player or a coach are completely different jobs. I am not sure if he will be successful as a coach or not and that only time can tell but I definitely dont want to forecast things based upon preformed opinions which many have. If results wont be good and Misbah will be making wrong calls you will see me questioning them just like I did during Mickey’s tenure when everything went downhill after CT17 win.

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    To think that, Imran averaged probably half with ball as Captain - that was truly amazing record. I donít think anyone in history has a better personal record as Captain, not even Sir Gary or Sir Don.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    What I am saying is that his pathetic knock had cost us the game till wahab turned it around. One of the worst odi inning ever 71 off 123 is pathetic no matter how you put. That's even awful in 1970s let alone 2015.
    I really donít get your logic . Had Misbah not stuck around for 120 balls Pakistan would have been bowled for 160.
    It was a slow knock but it is what was needed in the match situation.

    Wahab played the Knock he did as the other end was occupied with a set batsman .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    As captain, Misbah averaged 12 in Australia, 22 in South Africa. Poorly in SL too (but as a team we were good). So he clearly did not step up as captain in the tough conditions when things around him weren't great

    Now the important thing is that his blind supporters will say and propagate the myth is that he did well in the series we did well in UAE (65 avg) and England (40 avg - not eye popping by any means) making it seem like he was the reason for the success in these places. Yes he performed well but it was definitely not a situation where he was the one reason for our batting success in these series. The batting did not depend on him at all. The credit cannot go to him.

    Under his captaincy the following batsmen had the below records in these countries where he has done well:

    Younis Khan: England: 49, UAE: 59
    Azhar Ali - Eng: 42, UAE: 58
    Asad Shafiq - 39, UAE: 47
    Sarfraz Ahmed: England: 32, UAE: 46
    Ahmed Shehzad: UAE:58
    Hafeez: UAE:52

    The data shows that as a unit, the Pakistani batting did great in these conditions. There is literally no case to make that Misbah the batsman stepped up or rose to the occasion in Test cricket even in the series we did well in. He was an important cog in the side but certainly not the reason.

    Misbah failed to step up as a leader in the Pakistani batting lineup when things weren't going great and the conditions were tough as in South Africa, Australia etc.
    In test cricket, to do well you can not just have one batsman to score well and consistently. Over the course of a series where each batsman has between 4-8 innings to score runs, if they are good enough they will contribute, and thatís what the above batsman did .

    The point to be considered is that Misbah let from the front and scored on a consistent basis and therefore was a ďvery goodĒ captain -batsman .

    Nobody should not give him all the credit for our success , but he was vital to our success .
    Cricket is a team game so one man would never be the sole reason for a teams success over a sustained period of time .

  64. #64
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    He helped clean the image of Pakistan cricket. They became respectable men. Will be remembered as the focal point for turning the fortunes of a failing Test side. if you don't believe, just look at our Pak test record from 2007-10. Think we won only 1 test out of 16 in the Malik-Younis-Yousaf era. 2012 series against england and 2016 series in england will remain his greatest feat. Built a fortress in UAE where we didn't lose a single series under him. His and Younis' farewell in the WI test is one of the most Hollywood-esque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    He helped clean the image of Pakistan cricket. They became respectable men. Will be remembered as the focal point for turning the fortunes of a failing Test side. if you don't believe, just look at our Pak test record from 2007-10. Think we won only 1 test out of 16 in the Malik-Younis-Yousaf era. 2012 series against england and 2016 series in england will remain his greatest feat. Built a fortress in UAE where we didn't lose a single series under him. His and Younis' farewell in the WI test is one of the most Hollywood-esque.
    He's the undisputed king of Tests in Pakistan after Imran Khan.

    Statistically the most successful Test captain but some people would say Imran Khan is ahead as the captain, and they won't be wrong.

    We had an atrocious record in Tests (post-IK), before Misbah took charge and he completely changed our fortunes.

    For the first time made us an unbeatable Test team at home.
    Last edited by Hawkeye; 21st April 2020 at 22:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    I really don’t get your logic . Had Misbah not stuck around for 120 balls Pakistan would have been bowled for 160.
    It was a slow knock but it is what was needed in the match situation.

    Wahab played the Knock he did as the other end was occupied with a set batsman .
    I don't get your logic. Can you tell me from what angle is 71 off 123 is a good inning in odi in 2015?

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    If I am not wrong misbah is also the first Pakistani captain to lose a test series to new Zealand since the 1990s as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    He's the undisputed king of Tests in Pakistan after Imran Khan.

    Statistically the most successful Test captain but some people would say Imran Khan is ahead as the captain, and they won't be wrong.

    We had an atrocious record in Tests (post-IK), before Misbah took charge and he completely changed our fortunes.

    For the first time made us an unbeatable Test team at home.
    For the first time made us an unbeatable Test team at home
    That's good yaar, but Tests at home are only 1/6 conditions out of all formats, ie. playing home/away in Tests, ODI and T20. Granted T20s won't carry as much weight in terms of pure cricket but they are now the biggest spectator format in the game.

    So what you are saying you are satisfied with winning only 1/6 conditions but are happy to lose the other 5/6 conditions?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    He's the undisputed king of Tests in Pakistan after Imran Khan.

    Statistically the most successful Test captain but some people would say Imran Khan is ahead as the captain, and they won't be wrong.

    We had an atrocious record in Tests (post-IK), before Misbah took charge and he completely changed our fortunes.

    For the first time made us an unbeatable Test team at home.
    People often forget how awful we were from 2007-2010 except that 1 amazing win in Port Elizabeth but that lineup was the most complete lineup Pak could have played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    That's good yaar, but Tests at home are only 1/6 conditions out of all formats, ie. playing home/away in Tests, ODI and T20. Granted T20s won't carry as much weight in terms of pure cricket but they are now the biggest spectator format in the game.

    So what you are saying you are satisfied with winning only 1/6 conditions but are happy to lose the other 5/6 conditions?
    Do you intentionally ignore things, because you've made up your mind?

    We won more under him than in the immediate era before him.

    Quoting ads, in Misbah's tenure of 48 Tests Pakistan won 24, lost 13 and Drew 11.

    In the 6 years prior to this, Pakistan played 48, won 12, lost 22, drew 14.

    For the first time in Pakistan's history he won us an ODI series in SA. Also won a series in NZ.

    Things were way worse. We're now in the rebuilding process, he just won his 1st ODI series as the coach, and we just won our 2 Test series in a dominating manner not seen after he retired. T20's fake ranking was always there to see for those who had the vision, and we'll build a proper team for that too.

    Good things ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    I don't get your logic. Can you tell me from what angle is 71 off 123 is a good inning in odi in 2015?
    71 of 123 balls is a slow knock no doubt and I have acknowledged it in a previous post , but with out this knock Pakistan won’t have won the match and they most likely would have folded for 160-180. Therefore it was a match winning contribution along with Wahab and the bowlers . If you refuse to acknowledge this then your just ignorant and simply put it a hater .

    Peace
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 24th April 2020 at 18:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    On a 300 pitch 71 of 123 is criminal . Each innings has to be put in to context . It does not matter what year it is. So by you asking whether it’s a good innings in 2015, is completely pointless
    Look at the match situation , how the other batsman fared and what was the ultimate result and then you shoud see it was a match winning contribution along with Wahab and the bowlers


    However I don’t expect you to understand this as your also most likely an Umar Akmal fan going by your logic .
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 24th April 2020 at 21:21.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    If I am not wrong misbah is also the first Pakistani captain to lose a test series to new Zealand since the 1990s as well.
    It was a two test series . Misbah never played the second test as his father in law passed away and flew back .
    So technically I would say that is not the case .

  74. #74
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    Yeah Misbah did help rebuild the innings countless times after a typically poor start from the top order. Misbah's tenure saw some amazing highs but also awful lows which makes him so polarising.

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    @Slog In SA Misbah got a 60 in the 1st Test and a 40 in the 2nd Test. Only had a bad game in the 3rd Test when captaining a losing team was taking its toll after a long time in the field. Bear in mind he was approaching 43 in Aus tour 2016-17 where he averaged 12.66. Don't forget his performances in NZ and WI too. Laughable that he has got the most 50+ scores in Tests by a Pak Captain and twice more than anyone else and you are still refusing to accept him as the best Pakistan batsman as Captain. It is a big thing how you perform as Captain so I don't know why you think these are silly filters.
    Last edited by MenInG; 24th April 2020 at 21:22.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Do you intentionally ignore things, because you've made up your mind?

    We won more under him than in the immediate era before him.

    Quoting ads, in Misbah's tenure of 48 Tests Pakistan won 24, lost 13 and Drew 11.

    In the 6 years prior to this, Pakistan played 48, won 12, lost 22, drew 14.

    For the first time in Pakistan's history he won us an ODI series in SA. Also won a series in NZ.

    Things were way worse. We're now in the rebuilding process, he just won his 1st ODI series as the coach, and we just won our 2 Test series in a dominating manner not seen after he retired. T20's fake ranking was always there to see for those who had the vision, and we'll build a proper team for that too.

    Good things ahead.
    I agree that Misbah had a decent test record as captain and was also a good batsman for the format. However, his slow batting in ODIs ultimately led to a dismal turn of fortune for the side. I get the impression he just simply played for himself rather than try and win the game for Pakistan.

    Since you’ve thrown some stats my way for Captain Marvel, why don’t we take a deep dive? Brace yourself so we can take a look at some real stats.

    We’ll look at the Test and ODI formats as we know Misbah had decent enough record in Tests. Misbah only took charge of 8 T20s, winning 6 and losing 2. T20s under Misbah are bit of an anomaly as he only took charge for a short period of time. Therefore, we’ll move onto Tests and ODIs.

    You’ve also stated countless times that we were unbeatable at home, which is not strictly true as this is only valid when considering a series as we have lost some Test matches at home under Misbah. For very few series, Misbah did not play in one or more matches but I’ll point this out.

    We’ll look at individual series year by year from the time Misbah took
    charge. Please note some series may overlap in years, i.e. series that were being played in Dec and continuing onto January of the following year. Misbah first took charge in the home series against South Africa in 2010.

    And BTW, the record that you presented of near double win/loss ration of 24 wins to 13 losses is actually a lot closer than you think and I will prove this.

    For reference:
    Name:  test1.jpg
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    Test series/matches by year under Misbah

    2010
    Pak v SA: 0-0

    Here we had a 2 Test Match series vs SA with both matches ending in a draw so it was 0 wins, 0 losses and 2 draws for the series and year.

    2011
    NZ v Pak: 0-1, WI v Pak: 1-1, Zim v Pak: 0-1, Pak v SL: 1-0
    Bang v Pak: 0-2
    6 wins(1 home, 5 away), 1 loss(1 away), 3 draws(2 home, 1 away)

    2012
    Pak v Eng: 3-0, SL v Pak: 1-0
    3 wins(3 home), 0 losses*, 2 draws(2 away) – *Misbah did not play in the 1st match against SL in which they lost.

    2013
    SA v Pak: 3-0, Zim v Pak: 1-1, Pak v SA: 1-1, Pak v SL(2013/14): 1-1
    2 wins(1 home, 1 away), 5 losses(1 home, 4 away), 1 draw(1 home)

    2014
    SL v Pak: 2-0, Pak v Aus: 2-0, Pak v NZ: 1-1
    4 wins(4 home), 4 losses(2 home, 2 away), 1 draw(1 home)

    2015
    Bang v Pak: 0-1, SL v Pak: 1-2, Pak v Eng: 2-0
    5 wins(2 home, 3 away), 1 loss(1 away), 2 draws(1 home, 1 away)

    2016
    Eng v Pak: 2-2, Pak v WI: 2-1, NZ v Pak: 2-0, Aus v Pak(2016/17): 3-0
    4 wins(2 home, 2 away), 6 losses*(1 home, 5 away), 0 draws – *Misbah did not play in the 2nd Test match loss against NZ.

    2017:
    WI v Pak: 1-2
    2 wins(2 away), 2 losses(2 away), 0 draws

    Test Captaincy Record: 26 wins, 19 losses, 11 draws

    Decent enough record from the big man, but as I pointed out the win/loss ratio is a lot closer than what you posted. The stats you posted were pulled from an article from Oct. 2016 before the series against the West Indies was completed and the double header against New Zealand and Australia.

    Why would you be posting an incomplete stats record from Oct. 2016 when he’s been retired for three years? Is it possibly because after this point, the stats go down south rapidly?

    By the time his final series against West Indies was completed, we had lost a further 6 Tests under his captaincy, he did not play the last Test against New Zealand. Not Including the matches he played, Pakistan have lost a further 2 matches during his tenure as captain.

    For reference:
    Name:  odi1.jpg
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    ODI series/matches by year under Misbah

    2008
    Asia Cup: 1 win(Ind)
    1 win (home/neutral)

    2011
    Ire v Pak: 0-2, Zim v Pak: 0-3, Pak v SL: 4-1, Ban v Pak: 0-3
    12 wins(4 home, 8 away), 1 loss(1 home)

    2012
    Pak v Afg: 1-0, Pak v Eng: 0-4, SL v Pak: 3-1, Pak v Aus: 1-2
    Ind v Pak(2012/13): 1-2
    Asia Cup: 2 wins(Ban, SL), 1 loss(Ind)
    7 wins(2 home, 5 away/neutral), 10 losses(6 home, 4 away/neutral)
    1 nr(away)

    2013
    SA v Pak: 3-2, Sco v Pak: 0-1, Ire v Pak: 0-1, WI v Pak: 1-3
    Zim v Pak: 1-2, Pak v SA: 1-4, SA v Pak: 1-2, Pak v SL: 3-2
    CT 13: 0 wins, 3 losses(WI, SA, Ind)
    16 wins(4 home, 13 away), 16 losses(6 home, 10 away/neutral)
    1 tie x Ire, 1 tie x WI

    2014
    SL v Pak: 2-1, Pak v Aus*: 0-3, Pak v NZ**: 2-3
    Asia Cup 2014: 3 wins(Afg, Ind, Ban), 2 losses(2 x SL)
    5 wins(1home, 4 away/neutral), 7 losses(3 home, 4 away/neutral) - *Misbah did not play the 3rd match in which they lost, **Misbah played only the first 2 matches of this series, 1 win and 1 loss.

    2015
    NZ v Pak: 2-0
    WC 2015: 4 wins(Zim, UAE, SA, Ire), 3 losses(Ind, WI, Aus)
    4 wins(away/neutral), 5 losses(away/neutral)

    ODI Captaincy Record: 45 wins, 39 losses, 3 ties/nr

    Back in 2008 at the Asia Cup, Misbah took charge for a single match against India at Karachi in which Pakistan were victorious, so kudos and well done to Misbah for that.

    The ODI record on the face of it doesn’t look too bad. But the win ratio gets a big boost from 2011 in which things looked promising. However, aside from the victories against SL, we can the other wins came from the series against Ire, Zim and Ban. Back in those days we and most other teams were still able to beat Bangladesh for fun before they had their upward trend in fortunes.

    Subsequently we had some good wins especially in the Aane Do series against India. we had the likes of Ajmal, Afridi and Hafeez in good form especially around their bowling (notwithstanding bowling issues).

    But things started to turn sour with our ODI performance. The game had moved on and our inability to score quickly, post good totals or chase anything significant hurt our game in the modern era. If we consider the span from 2011-2015 under Misbah’s captaincy and look at his record excluding WI, Ban, Ire and other associate teams , then his record is only 21 wins and 35 losses and against the top 5 ODI sides.

    This is a truly atrocious record and thankfully, he was able to retire from ODIs after the pathetic WC 2015 and not try to hang on for a farewell CT 17 campaign. Therefore, really it is not just his captaincy, style of play or tactics that is frustrating. Its this penchant for trying to hang on for far too long when clearly you’re no longer good enough to play.

    Although he bowed out in 2015 from ODIs, in the Test format he stayed on until along with Younis Khan he was given a farewell series against the West Indies in 2017. Some considered this too late as previous to this series, there was a shambolic campaign against the antipodean nations although he had to miss the last Test match against New Zealand.

    Overall, a good Test Record and a mediocre ODI record. Though this is not a new revelation and we all had an idea of the performances under Misbah. But I hope this shines a closer look at things to gauge the true nature of Misbah’s leadership.

    For me personally and I guess for many others, it wasn’t just the performances and captaincy under Misbah that has led to a disagreement amongst fans whether Misbah should now lead as Coach and CS. There is definitely a dark side to Misbah as he has been ruthless in acquiring these positions. He also made some baffling decisions that have frustrated fans including delaying retirement, selecting his friends over other deserving players and turning to “TTFs”.

    Having a decent home Test record is good but its highly doubtful he has the strategy, tactics and the nuance to tackle the shorter formats of the game. Hurtling down the rankings is something Pakistan cannot afford to do again. For now, Misbah is in charge but remains to be seen how he leads Pakistan's progress in all three formats.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    I agree that Misbah had a decent test record as captain and was also a good batsman for the format. However, his slow batting in ODIs ultimately led to a dismal turn of fortune for the side. I get the impression he just simply played for himself rather than try and win the game for Pakistan.

    Since you’ve thrown some stats my way for Captain Marvel, why don’t we take a deep dive? Brace yourself so we can take a look at some real stats.

    We’ll look at the Test and ODI formats as we know Misbah had decent enough record in Tests. Misbah only took charge of 8 T20s, winning 6 and losing 2. T20s under Misbah are bit of an anomaly as he only took charge for a short period of time. Therefore, we’ll move onto Tests and ODIs.

    You’ve also stated countless times that we were unbeatable at home, which is not strictly true as this is only valid when considering a series as we have lost some Test matches at home under Misbah. For very few series, Misbah did not play in one or more matches but I’ll point this out.

    We’ll look at individual series year by year from the time Misbah took
    charge. Please note some series may overlap in years, i.e. series that were being played in Dec and continuing onto January of the following year. Misbah first took charge in the home series against South Africa in 2010.

    And BTW, the record that you presented of near double win/loss ration of 24 wins to 13 losses is actually a lot closer than you think and I will prove this.

    For reference:
    Name:  test1.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  28.5 KBName:  test2.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  34.5 KB

    Test series/matches by year under Misbah

    2010
    Pak v SA: 0-0

    Here we had a 2 Test Match series vs SA with both matches ending in a draw so it was 0 wins, 0 losses and 2 draws for the series and year.

    2011
    NZ v Pak: 0-1, WI v Pak: 1-1, Zim v Pak: 0-1, Pak v SL: 1-0
    Bang v Pak: 0-2
    6 wins(1 home, 5 away), 1 loss(1 away), 3 draws(2 home, 1 away)

    2012
    Pak v Eng: 3-0, SL v Pak: 1-0
    3 wins(3 home), 0 losses*, 2 draws(2 away) – *Misbah did not play in the 1st match against SL in which they lost.

    2013
    SA v Pak: 3-0, Zim v Pak: 1-1, Pak v SA: 1-1, Pak v SL(2013/14): 1-1
    2 wins(1 home, 1 away), 5 losses(1 home, 4 away), 1 draw(1 home)

    2014
    SL v Pak: 2-0, Pak v Aus: 2-0, Pak v NZ: 1-1
    4 wins(4 home), 4 losses(2 home, 2 away), 1 draw(1 home)

    2015
    Bang v Pak: 0-1, SL v Pak: 1-2, Pak v Eng: 2-0
    5 wins(2 home, 3 away), 1 loss(1 away), 2 draws(1 home, 1 away)

    2016
    Eng v Pak: 2-2, Pak v WI: 2-1, NZ v Pak: 2-0, Aus v Pak(2016/17): 3-0
    4 wins(2 home, 2 away), 6 losses*(1 home, 5 away), 0 draws – *Misbah did not play in the 2nd Test match loss against NZ.

    2017:
    WI v Pak: 1-2
    2 wins(2 away), 2 losses(2 away), 0 draws

    Test Captaincy Record: 26 wins, 19 losses, 11 draws

    Decent enough record from the big man, but as I pointed out the win/loss ratio is a lot closer than what you posted. The stats you posted were pulled from an article from Oct. 2016 before the series against the West Indies was completed and the double header against New Zealand and Australia.

    Why would you be posting an incomplete stats record from Oct. 2016 when he’s been retired for three years? Is it possibly because after this point, the stats go down south rapidly?

    By the time his final series against West Indies was completed, we had lost a further 6 Tests under his captaincy, he did not play the last Test against New Zealand. Not Including the matches he played, Pakistan have lost a further 2 matches during his tenure as captain.

    For reference:
    Name:  odi1.jpg
Views: 143
Size:  26.2 KBName:  odi2.jpg
Views: 138
Size:  36.2 KB

    ODI series/matches by year under Misbah

    2008
    Asia Cup: 1 win(Ind)
    1 win (home/neutral)

    2011
    Ire v Pak: 0-2, Zim v Pak: 0-3, Pak v SL: 4-1, Ban v Pak: 0-3
    12 wins(4 home, 8 away), 1 loss(1 home)

    2012
    Pak v Afg: 1-0, Pak v Eng: 0-4, SL v Pak: 3-1, Pak v Aus: 1-2
    Ind v Pak(2012/13): 1-2
    Asia Cup: 2 wins(Ban, SL), 1 loss(Ind)
    7 wins(2 home, 5 away/neutral), 10 losses(6 home, 4 away/neutral)
    1 nr(away)

    2013
    SA v Pak: 3-2, Sco v Pak: 0-1, Ire v Pak: 0-1, WI v Pak: 1-3
    Zim v Pak: 1-2, Pak v SA: 1-4, SA v Pak: 1-2, Pak v SL: 3-2
    CT 13: 0 wins, 3 losses(WI, SA, Ind)
    16 wins(4 home, 13 away), 16 losses(6 home, 10 away/neutral)
    1 tie x Ire, 1 tie x WI

    2014
    SL v Pak: 2-1, Pak v Aus*: 0-3, Pak v NZ**: 2-3
    Asia Cup 2014: 3 wins(Afg, Ind, Ban), 2 losses(2 x SL)
    5 wins(1home, 4 away/neutral), 7 losses(3 home, 4 away/neutral) - *Misbah did not play the 3rd match in which they lost, **Misbah played only the first 2 matches of this series, 1 win and 1 loss.

    2015
    NZ v Pak: 2-0
    WC 2015: 4 wins(Zim, UAE, SA, Ire), 3 losses(Ind, WI, Aus)
    4 wins(away/neutral), 5 losses(away/neutral)

    ODI Captaincy Record: 45 wins, 39 losses, 3 ties/nr

    Back in 2008 at the Asia Cup, Misbah took charge for a single match against India at Karachi in which Pakistan were victorious, so kudos and well done to Misbah for that.

    The ODI record on the face of it doesn’t look too bad. But the win ratio gets a big boost from 2011 in which things looked promising. However, aside from the victories against SL, we can the other wins came from the series against Ire, Zim and Ban. Back in those days we and most other teams were still able to beat Bangladesh for fun before they had their upward trend in fortunes.

    Subsequently we had some good wins especially in the Aane Do series against India. we had the likes of Ajmal, Afridi and Hafeez in good form especially around their bowling (notwithstanding bowling issues).

    But things started to turn sour with our ODI performance. The game had moved on and our inability to score quickly, post good totals or chase anything significant hurt our game in the modern era. If we consider the span from 2011-2015 under Misbah’s captaincy and look at his record excluding WI, Ban, Ire and other associate teams , then his record is only 21 wins and 35 losses and against the top 5 ODI sides.

    This is a truly atrocious record and thankfully, he was able to retire from ODIs after the pathetic WC 2015 and not try to hang on for a farewell CT 17 campaign. Therefore, really it is not just his captaincy, style of play or tactics that is frustrating. Its this penchant for trying to hang on for far too long when clearly you’re no longer good enough to play.

    Although he bowed out in 2015 from ODIs, in the Test format he stayed on until along with Younis Khan he was given a farewell series against the West Indies in 2017. Some considered this too late as previous to this series, there was a shambolic campaign against the antipodean nations although he had to miss the last Test match against New Zealand.

    Overall, a good Test Record and a mediocre ODI record. Though this is not a new revelation and we all had an idea of the performances under Misbah. But I hope this shines a closer look at things to gauge the true nature of Misbah’s leadership.

    For me personally and I guess for many others, it wasn’t just the performances and captaincy under Misbah that has led to a disagreement amongst fans whether Misbah should now lead as Coach and CS. There is definitely a dark side to Misbah as he has been ruthless in acquiring these positions. He also made some baffling decisions that have frustrated fans including delaying retirement, selecting his friends over other deserving players and turning to “TTFs”.

    Having a decent home Test record is good but its highly doubtful he has the strategy, tactics and the nuance to tackle the shorter formats of the game. Hurtling down the rankings is something Pakistan cannot afford to do again. For now, Misbah is in charge but remains to be seen how he leads Pakistan's progress in all three formats.
    Excellent post. Agree with every word you wrote.

  78. #78
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    @Kroll At least acknowledge how well Misbah performed with the bat while being Captain in ODIs. Leading ODI run scorer worldwide in 2013 and was by far and away Pakistan's stand out batsman and top run getter in the 2013 Champions Trophy and 2015 World Cup while captaining the side. He was ranked in the top 10 in the ICC ODI batting rankings aged 40 when he bowed out of the game. This deserves respect and appreciation.

    Even Wasim Akram and Imran Khan wouldn't have been good ODI captains in the modern era i.e. both were continuously supporting and pushing for Younis Khan's selection despite repeated failures from him in the format. They didn't get modern cricket.

    Been 5 years since Misbah left ODIs and we've not won an ODI series vs Eng, Aus, SA or NZ since. Misbah's proven his worth as a white ball Captain in addition to his Test accomplishments through his own batting performance and by winning The Asia Cup, Faysal Bank T20 2013 and 2 PSL titles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomCricket View Post
    @Kroll At least acknowledge how well Misbah performed with the bat while being Captain in ODIs. Leading ODI run scorer worldwide in 2013 and was by far and away Pakistan's stand out batsman and top run getter in the 2013 Champions Trophy and 2015 World Cup while captaining the side. He was ranked in the top 10 in the ICC ODI batting rankings aged 40 when he bowed out of the game. This deserves respect and appreciation.

    Even Wasim Akram and Imran Khan wouldn't have been good ODI captains in the modern era i.e. both were continuously supporting and pushing for Younis Khan's selection despite repeated failures from him in the format. They didn't get modern cricket.

    Been 5 years since Misbah left ODIs and we've not won an ODI series vs Eng, Aus, SA or NZ since. Misbah's proven his worth as a white ball Captain in addition to his Test accomplishments through his own batting performance and by winning The Asia Cup, Faysal Bank T20 2013 and 2 PSL titles.
    Misbah is one of the worst odi batsmens ever and decent test batsmen at best. LMAO proven his worth as odi captain. As soon as he retired we won champions trophy which is bigger then any misbahs achievements in odis.

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    You know youíre struggling when Faysal Bank T20 titles have to be used as an evidence


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