'Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are not going to win Pakistan tournaments': Aaqib Javed


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  1. #1
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    'Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are not going to win Pakistan tournaments': Aaqib Javed

    Aaqib Javed speaking to reporters:

    "These two openers are not going to win you tournaments … Take the two openers [Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan], No.1 and No.2 players in the world. But such a player should know what to do. The vice-captain [Rizwan] plays for 15 overs – starts playing when the asking rate is 8 and leaves after taking it to 17! [in the Asia Cup final that Pakistan lost to Sri Lanka]"

    "Paanch saaal mey ghuma-ghuma ke [in 5 years] Iftikhar Ahmed has come back 4 times. Same with Asif Ali and Khushdil Shah"

    “Until you have an eye on it (feeder system below the national teams) and see who can come up to replace, this will keep happening. I don’t know how we are going to get out of this situation"


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  2. #2
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    Correct statement from Aqib.

  3. #3
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    The noise is getting louder and louder

    Let these two play the next 15 games or so as openers

    Better to let them do it now and dig their own grave

  4. #4
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    We are not winning it with any opening batsmens in the country, if he thinks otherwise then …….

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    All these fans and ex cricketers are unhappy with the squad can they please give us names other the hack sharjeel and Malik who always been a failure. The way we are going about it as if we are leaving behind tendulkars?

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    Any batsman with self respect (which Baba & Rizwan have) know they have to bat till 15/16th over as they know garbage like kushdil Ifty asif nawaz cannot be exposed to international quality bowlers for more than 5 overs.

    If Baba & Rizwan fall early this batting line up won’t cross 90

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Aaqib Javed speaking to reporters:

    "These two openers are not going to win you tournaments … Take the two openers [Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan], No.1 and No.2 players in the world. But such a player should know what to do. The vice-captain [Rizwan] plays for 15 overs – starts playing when the asking rate is 8 and leaves after taking it to 17! [in the Asia Cup final that Pakistan lost to Sri Lanka]"

    "Paanch saaal mey ghuma-ghuma ke [in 5 years] Iftikhar Ahmed has come back 4 times. Same with Asif Ali and Khushdil Shah"

    “Until you have an eye on it (feeder system below the national teams) and see who can come up to replace, this will keep happening. I don’t know how we are going to get out of this situation"
    Absolutely , spot on.

  8. #8
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    The reason may just be the fact that your next 9 batsmen are borderline tailenders who are not capable of handling decent bowling, which is why more often than not, atleast one of these 2 has to stay around until the 15th over without taking too much risks in order to avoid a collapse.

    Nothing new, just another clueless former Pakistan cricketer plying to the gallery and going with the current trend of bashing the only 2 performing batsmen in the side.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Aaqib Javed speaking to reporters:

    "These two openers are not going to win you tournaments … Take the two openers [Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan], No.1 and No.2 players in the world. But such a player should know what to do. The vice-captain [Rizwan] plays for 15 overs – starts playing when the asking rate is 8 and leaves after taking it to 17! [in the Asia Cup final that Pakistan lost to Sri Lanka]"

    "Paanch saaal mey ghuma-ghuma ke [in 5 years] Iftikhar Ahmed has come back 4 times. Same with Asif Ali and Khushdil Shah"

    “Until you have an eye on it (feeder system below the national teams) and see who can come up to replace, this will keep happening. I don’t know how we are going to get out of this situation"
    We need more impetus from the top 2, that’s not in doubt. But for Aquib Javed, director of cricket operations LQ to be saying this about a successful feeder system is not correct.

    Take out Haris Rauf, how many actual successes has the LQ player development programme given us? How many batsmen have we seen in the PDP? It’s ok to reference a feeder system, but it’s not easy to get ready made replacements

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waleed93 View Post
    The reason may just be the fact that your next 9 batsmen are borderline tailenders who are not capable of handling decent bowling, which is why more often than not, atleast one of these 2 has to stay around until the 15th over without taking too much risks in order to avoid a collapse.

    Nothing new, just another clueless former Pakistan cricketer plying to the gallery and going with the current trend of bashing the only 2 performing batsmen in the side.
    “The only 2 performing batsmen in the side”, how about we let the “tailenders” open the innings and tell them to “anchor” the innings. I’m pretty sure they can manage to score a run a ball, and get out after scoring their 50’s.

    If those 2 batsmen were performing then we wouldn’t have the 3rd lowest RR in the PP overs this year. They don’t capitalise in the PP overs because they’re selfish.

    Just look at the way they bat, it’s pre meditated dots, before the ball is released they’ve already made the decision to play a dot ball. The worst opening pair in world cricket atm.
    Last edited by YousafTheBeast; 16th September 2022 at 04:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YousafTheBeast View Post
    “The only 2 performing batsmen in the side”, how about we let the “tailenders” open the innings and tell them to “anchor” the innings. I’m pretty sure they can manage to score a run a ball, and get out after scoring their 50’s.

    If those 2 batsmen were performing then we wouldn’t have the 3rd lowest RR in the PP overs this year. They don’t capitalise in the PP overs because they’re selfish.

    Just look at the way they bat, it’s pre meditated dots, before the ball is released they’ve already made the decision to play a dot ball. The worst opening pair in world cricket atm.
    Abdullah Shafique is also on the path to follow their style. Check the way he got bowled today by Sohail Khan. He wanted to defend an easy drive ball and got an inside edge on the stumps

    These two are also setting a terrible precedent for future batsmen. Abdul Wahid Bangalzai is also on the path to follow his idol Babar with some tuk tuk in the powerplay

    Another pretender who is on the way is Haseebullah Khan. Remember the name of this bloke too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Abdullah Shafique is also on the path to follow their style. Check the way he got bowled today by Sohail Khan. He wanted to defend an easy drive ball and got an inside edge on the stumps

    These two are also setting a terrible precedent for future batsmen. Abdul Wahid Bangalzai is also on the path to follow his idol Babar with some tuk tuk in the powerplay

    Another pretender who is on the way is Haseebullah Khan. Remember the name of this bloke too.
    Whilst our batsmen are playing premeditated defensive shots which get them no runs, batsmen from other teams look to score runs of every ball🤦🏻*♂️

    Another one is Rohail Nazir…

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    What Aaqib is saying in a nutshell is that we play too slow. I totally agree with this.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Aqib is best known for ruining the careers of promising young bowlers & as far as his coaching is concerned well LQ is a great example.. i don’t take him seriously anymore
    Last edited by Firebat; 16th September 2022 at 05:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YousafTheBeast View Post
    “The only 2 performing batsmen in the side”, how about we let the “tailenders” open the innings and tell them to “anchor” the innings. I’m pretty sure they can manage to score a run a ball, and get out after scoring their 50’s.

    If those 2 batsmen were performing then we wouldn’t have the 3rd lowest RR in the PP overs this year. They don’t capitalise in the PP overs because they’re selfish.

    Just look at the way they bat, it’s pre meditated dots, before the ball is released they’ve already made the decision to play a dot ball. The worst opening pair in world cricket atm.
    We have seen some clueless posters here asking for Fakhar to open the innings just because he is supposed to be a better hitter than Babar.

    However, what we have seen throughout the Asia Cup was that Fakhar the big hitting opener is nothing but a fabricated myth.

    Babar was out of form throughout the tournament, which allowed Fakhar to come out very early in the innings, in the powerplay overs.

    The result was Fakhar the big hitting opener not only struggling to hit boundaries, but also failing to score quicker than Rizwan. His T20I career strike rate puts his "big hitting" ability on the same level as Babar and Rizwan, and his poor average as a T20I opener puts the debate to sleep.

    Both of our current openers have won us several games while batting together in the last 2 years, more than the likes of Fakhar and that unfit fixer Sharjeel have done in their whole T20I careers.

    Yes, they had a poor Asia Cup. Yet, Rizwan managed to do well against India, and the only game where we lost both of them cheaply, we got rolled over by Sri Lanka, because the rest of them are idiotic hacks, who close their eyes before the ball is even bowled and blindly swing their bat, simply because their skillset is not at the level where it should be, which is the main reason why Babar or Rizwan have to be at the crease until the 15th over.

    You don't have Pandyas, Butlers, Roys or Maxwells waiting in your middle order to open the innings instead of Babar and Rizwan. These tailenders don't have the ability to even hack properly, and you think they can score 50s while opening.

  16. #16
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    Lol and which batsmen in Pakistan are going to win us tournaments? We are getting above our station here given we are a largely mediocre side with zero middle order.

    There's a lot of disrespect going around from the Asia Cup and while everyone can agree Rizwan was too slow, literally nobody else managed to outbat him either.

    My money is on lessons being learned and us seeing a higher strike rate from our two openers in the WC as Rizwan usually responds to the negativity with his bat.

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    The biggest myth being circulated in Pakistan cricket is that if Rizwan and Babar get out Pakistan wont even cross 100.

    As a test Pakistan can rest both of them in a few games and see if Pakistan crash to less than 100.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Lol and which batsmen in Pakistan are going to win us tournaments? We are getting above our station here given we are a largely mediocre side with zero middle order.

    There's a lot of disrespect going around from the Asia Cup and while everyone can agree Rizwan was too slow, literally nobody else managed to outbat him either.

    My money is on lessons being learned and us seeing a higher strike rate from our two openers in the WC as Rizwan usually responds to the negativity with his bat.
    Our delusional fans are forgetting the mediocre standards of our batting.

    Not long ago, we had the misfortune of witnessing mediocre and slow batsmen like Shehzad, Umar Amin, Hafeez, Malik or blind hacks like Sharjeel, Akmals, etc... and we used to cry.

    Now that we have two reliable openers who have done exceptionally well in the last 2 years in this format, we want to see them out so that some other brainless sloggers can take their places.

    All this rona dhona after one poor Asia Cup, where a slow Rizwan still outbatted the rest of of our big hitting middle order full of ABDVs.

    I guess we deserve the batting line up we witnessed between 2013-2016. That is the level we deserve.

  19. #19
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    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Misbah

    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Babar and Rizwan.

    Its all about the interests of the individual, to hell with the team.

    If you don't throw Fish in the water, they will not know how to swim.

    The team management needs to expose Khusdil, Asif Ali, Nawaz, Shadab to bat from overs 4-5 and beyond. Give them a chance to get their eye as opposed to the pressure of a 12-15 rpo situation

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Misbah

    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Babar and Rizwan.

    Its all about the interests of the individual, to hell with the team.

    If you don't throw Fish in the water, they will not know how to swim.

    The team management needs to expose Khusdil, Asif Ali, Nawaz, Shadab to bat from overs 4-5 and beyond. Give them a chance to get their eye as opposed to the pressure of a 12-15 rpo situation
    Shadab and Nawaz are bowling all-rounders, you don't expect them to carry the batting line up for 15 overs.

    Khushdil and Asif have already been exposed multiple times. They are asked to hit the ball hard and score quick runs at the death and are not capable of doing that.

    They barely last for 5 balls and you want them to give them more responsibilty ?

    These guys are the main problems. If Babar and Rizwan both click on a given day and leave us at 130-3 in 14 overs, you expect your hitters to score 70 runs in the last 6 overs and get 200 runs.

    However, with Pakistan, the problem lies in the middle order. The big hitters are not skilled enough to get the job done in the last few overs.

    Pakistan's best hitter is Asif and he rarely lasts for an over at the crease. Khushdil struggles to even time the ball properly. The less said about Iftikhar, the better it is.

    The problem doesn't start with Pakistan's opening pair. It starts at the moment both of them are gone.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    The biggest myth being circulated in Pakistan cricket is that if Rizwan and Babar get out Pakistan wont even cross 100.

    As a test Pakistan can rest both of them in a few games and see if Pakistan crash to less than 100.
    Not sure i've heard this 'myth' but i doubt it's meant to be taken it literally. Why don't you test this outcome by finding scorecards where both Babar and Rizwan have failed as openers and Pakistan have still gone onto win?

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    This is all going back to misbah era . Where we believed without misbah team won’t survive . So we are back to that position . I miss the days of Mickey Arthur .

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    Technically only one of them should open the batting but again the problem is that both of them can only bat at the top due to their lack of power hitting. So they need to remain in the top 3. With Fakhar not picked what is Pakistan's replacement?

  24. #24
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    There is reason why Babar and Rizwan formula is no longer working - teams have sorted out their strategies against them.

    Aqib is right. Time for a change. No better place to start than against England.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    There is reason why Babar and Rizwan formula is no longer working - teams have sorted out their strategies against them.

    Aqib is right. Time for a change. No better place to start than against England.
    Harris sohail has been performing well in national t20 (batting wise not fielding) he has shown he can shift gears when needed. Would do better than ifti and better sr than Shaan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    The biggest myth being circulated in Pakistan cricket is that if Rizwan and Babar get out Pakistan wont even cross 100.

    As a test Pakistan can rest both of them in a few games and see if Pakistan crash to less than 100.
    It’s not a myth. We have no batsmen after the top three, so Pakistan crashing to less than 100 totals is a definite possibility.

    Aqib has been owned too many times when he has been asked for alternatives. It’s easy to criticize, but until these ex-players provide valid solutions, they are part of the problem in my eyes.
    Last edited by Usman Chadda; 16th September 2022 at 10:35.

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    These two are looking to deliver consistent performances in a format that demands impact more than consistency. The format requires more madness than method. Quick 25-30 is a lot better than a 50 ball 60. If all batsmen come out swinging 2-3 will click and that’s enough. Example is SL innings in the Final.

    Babar and Rizwan need to play the format the way it should be. Throw caution to the winds.It boils my blood to see juicy half volleys being blocked in the PP, balls that can easily be lofted for 4 or 6

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    The biggest myth being circulated in Pakistan cricket is that if Rizwan and Babar get out Pakistan wont even cross 100.

    As a test Pakistan can rest both of them in a few games and see if Pakistan crash to less than 100.
    It's not really a myth, we have seen it happen in the past.

    It happened in the Asia Cup game vs SL(1st game) and Afg where Babar and Rizwan got out cheaply and Pakistan struggled to reach 120.

  29. #29
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    "Been a revelation as an opener. Has the gameplan with the right mindset 👌"

    Herschelle Gibbs on Mohammad Rizwan

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GudduBadmash View Post
    "Been a revelation as an opener. Has the gameplan with the right mindset 👌"

    Herschelle Gibbs on Mohammad Rizwan
    Is that why Gibbs dropped him from KK when he became coach?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Correct statement from Aqib.
    Even the blind know this, but the PP groupings will come shortly to say its the best.


    I hereby present to thee, inventor of thy round table, arise - Sir Cumference

  32. #32
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    Issue is not babar, rizwan, ifti or even fakhar. The batting squad and line up is perfect for t20. The pace bowling for australia is perfect and the spin dou is also perfect.

    Pakistan has a team that can compete.

    Issue is captaincy.

    This team can easily reach semis or finals. But they can't win due to bad captaincy as in knockout games, the better captain wins.

    Babar and rizwan pair is perfect with a success rate of 80%. You want to sabotage it than go for it.....

    Anyways, aqib javed is the same person whose team came dead last 5 concecutive times


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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Issue is not babar, rizwan, ifti or even fakhar. The batting squad and line up is perfect for t20. The pace bowling for australia is perfect and the spin dou is also perfect.

    Pakistan has a team that can compete.

    Issue is captaincy.

    This team can easily reach semis or finals. But they can't win due to bad captaincy as in knockout games, the better captain wins.

    Babar and rizwan pair is perfect with a success rate of 80%. You want to sabotage it than go for it.....

    Anyways, aqib javed is the same person whose team came dead last 5 concecutive times
    Team Strategy is the problem. It's way too defensive. We need to do away with this 90's philosophy of keeping wickets in hand and leaving a RR of 15 per over for the middle order.

    The hitters need to be made to bat the maximum number of overs to allow them to get their eye in before going for the big shots.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waleed93 View Post
    The reason may just be the fact that your next 9 batsmen are borderline tailenders who are not capable of handling decent bowling, which is why more often than not, atleast one of these 2 has to stay around until the 15th over without taking too much risks in order to avoid a collapse.
    So, the captain and vice-captain have no say in the selection of these so-called tailenders? Give me a break.

  35. #35
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    The whole world recognizes there is a problem with our openers.

    Why do you think cricinfo didn't have the top tournament run-scorer (Rizwan), who also happens to be the no. 1 T20 batsman, in their tournament 11?

    Some people would prefer to bury their heads in the sand rather than face the obvious truth.

    Iftikhar and Rizwan left the rest of the batsmen to get 63 off 21 balls. That's ridiculous. They should have hit out (and got out if it so happened) much earlier.
    Last edited by Blistering Barnacle; 16th September 2022 at 23:01.

  36. #36
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    Our T20 openers bat like it's a 50 over game.

    Saqlain says meanwhile that we got to the semi final of last world cup and the final of this world cup so we are doing it right.

    Dude, we are talking about why the team didn't win those games. If your goal is to not win, then yes we are doing fine. Other coaches want to analyze and assess our weaknesses and improve on them, and that starts by recognizing and acknowledging the weaknesses, not trying to gloss over them.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Issue is not babar, rizwan, ifti or even fakhar. The batting squad and line up is perfect for t20. The pace bowling for australia is perfect and the spin dou is also perfect.
    This is the issue right here

    This psychology is currently the one in influence in Pakistan. No wonder Pakistan as a nation is behind in most things in this world

  38. #38
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    I guess the problem now is though is it too late to make changes in the opening positions, having not tried any alternatives recently.

    Surely you cannot experiment at a World Cup event.



  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waleed93 View Post
    The reason may just be the fact that your next 9 batsmen are borderline tailenders who are not capable of handling decent bowling, which is why more often than not, atleast one of these 2 has to stay around until the 15th over without taking too much risks in order to avoid a collapse.

    Nothing new, just another clueless former Pakistan cricketer plying to the gallery and going with the current trend of bashing the only 2 performing batsmen in the side.
    Then why not one of them drop down to 3 and have some explosive at the opening slot with one of Rizwan or Babar.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Then why not one of them drop down to 3 and have some explosive at the opening slot with one of Rizwan or Babar.
    Because they have a god given right to bat at ODI pace for 15 overs and nobody should question it

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Then why not one of them drop down to 3 and have some explosive at the opening slot with one of Rizwan or Babar.
    Open with who? I don’t mind Haider Ali.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waleed93 View Post
    Our delusional fans are forgetting the mediocre standards of our batting.

    Not long ago, we had the misfortune of witnessing mediocre and slow batsmen like Shehzad, Umar Amin, Hafeez, Malik or blind hacks like Sharjeel, Akmals, etc... and we used to cry.

    Now that we have two reliable openers who have done exceptionally well in the last 2 years in this format, we want to see them out so that some other brainless sloggers can take their places.

    All this rona dhona after one poor Asia Cup, where a slow Rizwan still outbatted the rest of of our big hitting middle order full of ABDVs.

    I guess we deserve the batting line up we witnessed between 2013-2016. That is the level we deserve.
    No one wants to see them out what fans want to see if adapting to situation and adapting to the conditions and coming out of thier comfort zone !.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Even the blind know this, but the PP groupings will come shortly to say its the best.
    What grouping that's not possible with Pakistan players.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    What grouping that's not possible with Pakistan players.
    On here.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Then why not one of them drop down to 3 and have some explosive at the opening slot with one of Rizwan or Babar.
    Has to be Babar, don't think you can hide Rizwan anywhere else.

  46. #46
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    Pakistan is the only country in the world where you will have 3 anchors in the first 3 positions eating up 80 percent of the deliveries under the pretext of "stability".

    And when you question why should Pakistan have to chase 60 off 20 balls the excuse is "to not bring out a collapse".

    Its a classical defense mechanism.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  47. #47
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    Big talk from a guy with easily the worst PSL record. LQ have consistently been a dumpster fire under his watch. The only reason they've managed to find some recent success is lucking into Shaheen (who any team would've picked first in 2018) and getting high picks in the draft year after year.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAli98 View Post
    Any batsman with self respect (which Baba & Rizwan have) know they have to bat till 15/16th over as they know garbage like kushdil Ifty asif nawaz cannot be exposed to international quality bowlers for more than 5 overs.

    If Baba & Rizwan fall early this batting line up won’t cross 90
    agreed that they are garbage but Babar is heavily involved with selection and should try to fit in a better middle order batsman if he isnt trusting them, or why cant they just try Nawaz and Shadab at no 4 or 5 ?

  49. #49
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    Well said Aqib Javed.

    Even a poor coach like him gets it.
    Last edited by MenInG; 17th September 2022 at 10:50.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Because they have a god given right to bat at ODI pace for 15 overs and nobody should question it
    Thing is, our openers before this pair were aiming to do the same thing, they weren't successful. Babar and Rizwan are and they've broken all sorts of records. I think the top 5 highest T20I partnerships for Pakistan have been with these 2 at the crease. Unfair to break them when they've been so successful.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Has to be Babar, don't think you can hide Rizwan anywhere else.
    I agree I would also put Babar at 3

  52. #52
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    More from Aaqib:

    "When you knew that the World Cup was happening, and even today, the selection is doubtful. Because they should have done this six or eight months back, that this is our squad of 20 players. And there's a reasoning for that"

    "You have openers, no.3, middle order, lower middle order... you should know what your batting composition is."

    "If someone gets out early, who can come and consolidate, build a little and then score quickly later on... I don't see anyone like that in the team"

    "And that has become the mindset that we have to keep these two openers. The two openers are effective, but where? For scores under 150-160. They are suitable for that"

    "When we play against Karachi and we have a total of 180 or so, we have never tried too hard or wanted too badly to get Babar Azam out. Because he plays at his own pace and the required rate keeps increasing"

    "Rizwan is also similar. No doubt he played very well in the PSL, but when these two play together, then you have two performers of the same type."


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  53. #53
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    Savage

    Let Babar stay at the crease for as long as possible, the match will automatically be yours.

    100% Haqeeqat

  54. #54
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    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard

    The most embarrassing match for a Pakistani captain in PSL history! Man came back to the shed 90* with 4 wickets remaining

    But as usual, PCB and his fans just stuck their head in the sand.

  55. #55
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    Sharjeel Khan with a monster SR of 68 in the Powerplay in his last match. But some fans of this spot fixer will come running once he plays a good innings in a billion games.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    Sharjeel Khan with a monster SR of 68 in the Powerplay in his last match. But some fans of this spot fixer will come running once he plays a good innings in a billion games.
    It’s tough isn’t it when everything you stood for in the name of data/analytics is being smashed to smithereens by basic logic.

    A storm is coming. Be prepared

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Misbah

    Pakistan Cricket and batting is doomed without Babar and Rizwan.

    Its all about the interests of the individual, to hell with the team.

    If you don't throw Fish in the water, they will not know how to swim.

    The team management needs to expose Khusdil, Asif Ali, Nawaz, Shadab to bat from overs 4-5 and beyond. Give them a chance to get their eye as opposed to the pressure of a 12-15 rpo situation
    This is a point very well made. We sometimes get too bogged down with the thought of change. I remember when people said we wouldn’t make 60 runs without Misbah in ODIs - but as soon as he left we started scoring 300 again.

    Not sure about the personnel you mentioned such as Khushdil, but I think the general point you are making is a great one.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    This is a point very well made. We sometimes get too bogged down with the thought of change. I remember when people said we wouldn’t make 60 runs without Misbah in ODIs - but as soon as he left we started scoring 300 again.

    Not sure about the personnel you mentioned such as Khushdil, but I think the general point you are making is a great one.
    Just to add, to play like this and have this mindset is unforgiveable in T20s which is just a big tamasha hit n giggle cricket. The team needs to got out and express itself and entertain. Why be scared and remain in your shell?

    It's not a format designed to conserve wickets and then try finish it at the end with a monumental rr. Teams still got at you despite losing wickets in the power play but we're happy to canter merrily along at run a ball with the likes of Iftikhar and Rizwan for a considerable part of the innings.

    After leaving 70 still to get from 30, Rizwan will then get out trying to show now he is getting a "move on". Asif Ali, Khushdil predictably fail while the likes of Rizwan think they've done a great job. The problems are at the top of the order as much as the middle.

  59. #59
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    Who does aaqib want to open that can win them the world cup?

    Nobody else is good enough

    Sharjeel is a hack with awful fitness Fakhar has a medicore opening record and is out of form

    Pakistan doesnt have the greatest resources at the moment and these two although not perfect are the bezt they have They are consistent and have a great record

    And in any form of cricket you want your best batters to face the most deliveries and set the score up Not them coming down the order with the team on the backfoot doing a rescure job


    What pakistan needs is not for a change of strategy Never mind how poor the mid order you may thnk is theyve got to give them a chance and the openers need to bat with more urgency

    Bat quicker and if they lose their wkt so be it Give your middle order some responsibility and time
    Last edited by Zaz; 17th September 2022 at 17:07.


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  60. #60
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    Very easy to say who won’t win you tournaments but, extremely difficult to say who will.

    Yes utilization of PP and SR has been an issue but, that for SR has been the case mainly in the recent season. Mohammad Rizwan was striking at 135 in 29 matches T20I he played in 2021. However its 117 in 2022

    Babar was striking at 137, 144, 127 in three previous seasons but is now striking at 122 and consistency is also struggling which currently is a bigger issue.

    That being said players go through different phases and forms throughout their careers. Babar the T20 batter of 2020 and Rizwan the T20 batter of 2021 is what is required and I hope they touch that form again. Contrary to what Aaqib said, in the years I mentioned Babar won KK the trophy almost singlehandedly being the highest scorer with avg of 59 and SR of 124, yes some top order Pakistanis had like 3,4 more in SR but with less than half his average. While Rizwan won trophies with Multan Sultans as well as KPK (Yes couldn’t play all matches), in PSL averaged 44 was the 2nd highest run getter after by Babar and SR of 127.

    Yes our approach needs to be better and has been an issue but, Babar and Rizwan have showed in their better years that they can go at a much higher SR, its just that conundrum of balancing the consistency and SR when out of form.

    I would say that yes base is important but, its not that important that you limit your shots when either Babar gets out or Rizwan. RizwanÂ’s decreasing strike rate coincides with Babar struggling with form as he seems to have taken that extra responsibility of going till the end while limiting his shots. The six that he hit to Srl spinner in the Asia Cup final when it looked like things have kind of shifted away was somewhat of an indication of holding himself back for the sake of base, I don’ agree with it. In such situations you still need to play your shots but, the only difference is you limit yourself high probability ones (As Eng or other teams do when they have lost key wickets quickly).

    Despite my thinking of having Babar at no 3 to have more solidity in middle overs, Babar has been part of historic run chases for Pak in LOIs (Including T20I opening) and Rizwan can be as useful as he showed in 2021. So I dont want to see Babar and Rizwan the anchors who get completely bogged down when the other one gets out rather the batsmen they can be.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Is that why Gibbs dropped him from KK when he became coach?
    Wasn’t Gibbs, it was Dean Jones.

  62. #62
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    Many people are diagnosing the problem wrongly.

    The approach of Babar and Rizwan has worked more often that not and there is no reason to separate this opening pair.

    Most people dont realise that it was not because of their usual approach that Pakistan lost the Asia cup final and also played poorly in the opening overs in some other matches of the tournament.

    It was in fact due to them NOT being able to implement their usual approach in those games.

    One massive reason for it is Babar's collosal failure in every single game. Also, in the final, you'll have to give credit to Srilankan bowlers as well.

    Overall, the opening pair should be the least of your concerns.

    The middle and lower middle order is where the real problems are.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfPakBreakfast View Post
    Wasn’t Gibbs, it was Dean Jones.
    It was Gibbs who had no plans for him in the KK set up and allowed him to go.

  64. #64
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    Some of these ex players should be banned on media they are downright pathetic individuals

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by asadee View Post
    Some of these ex players should be banned on media they are downright pathetic individuals
    Yes they should be banned because they don’t say the things you do not like to hear.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Very easy to say who won’t win you tournaments but, extremely difficult to say who will.

    Yes utilization of PP and SR has been an issue but, that for SR has been the case mainly in the recent season. Mohammad Rizwan was striking at 135 in 29 matches T20I he played in 2021. However its 117 in 2022

    Babar was striking at 137, 144, 127 in three previous seasons but is now striking at 122 and consistency is also struggling which currently is a bigger issue.

    That being said players go through different phases and forms throughout their careers. Babar the T20 batter of 2020 and Rizwan the T20 batter of 2021 is what is required and I hope they touch that form again. Contrary to what Aaqib said, in the years I mentioned Babar won KK the trophy almost singlehandedly being the highest scorer with avg of 59 and SR of 124, yes some top order Pakistanis had like 3,4 more in SR but with less than half his average. While Rizwan won trophies with Multan Sultans as well as KPK (Yes couldn’t play all matches), in PSL averaged 44 was the 2nd highest run getter after by Babar and SR of 127.

    Yes our approach needs to be better and has been an issue but, Babar and Rizwan have showed in their better years that they can go at a much higher SR, its just that conundrum of balancing the consistency and SR when out of form.

    I would say that yes base is important but, its not that important that you limit your shots when either Babar gets out or Rizwan. RizwanÂ’s decreasing strike rate coincides with Babar struggling with form as he seems to have taken that extra responsibility of going till the end while limiting his shots. The six that he hit to Srl spinner in the Asia Cup final when it looked like things have kind of shifted away was somewhat of an indication of holding himself back for the sake of base, I don’ agree with it. In such situations you still need to play your shots but, the only difference is you limit yourself high probability ones (As Eng or other teams do when they have lost key wickets quickly).

    Despite my thinking of having Babar at no 3 to have more solidity in middle overs, Babar has been part of historic run chases for Pak in LOIs (Including T20I opening) and Rizwan can be as useful as he showed in 2021. So I dont want to see Babar and Rizwan the anchors who get completely bogged down when the other one gets out rather the batsmen they can be.
    It will be interesting to see what Babar and Rizwan strik rates are in the first 6 overs and how many dot balls they have.

  67. #67
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    Moin Khan speaking on TV

    “If you look at the openers of world-class teams, their strike rates are above 130. So, I think Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan need to improvise their game and approach as they are now in dire need to ante their strike rate up"

    “I think Babar is currently going through a rough form, no doubt on his capabilities, he is a wonderful player. Rizwan, on the other hand, plays on one side only and he needs to score on the other side as well or else he will be trapped"

    “I said it earlier in the Asia Cup that a left-right combination should be made in the opening since Babar had been playing at the one-down position so he should have demoted himself and promoted Fakhar to the opening position"

    “Such combination is very deadly as it also makes it harder for the bowlers to stick to their line and length. So, you have to take a chance, it is inevitable and if you don’t want to take such chances and want to play conventional cricket then you’ll remain a conventional and an average side forever"

    “There is no doubt, changes could have been made to the current middle-order but as a former cricketer, I always support the team. So, I think we need to back them now"

    “No doubt, our middle-order had a poor Asia Cup and they could have done better in the tournament but I think Khushdil, Asif, and other middle-order batters are lucky as they got the backing from the management after a poor tournament"

    “As we saw in the Asia Cup final that Pakistan lost the match after a dominating start, we should have adopted the attacking approach but we did not and lost the momentum. I wonder what was this support staff doing there if they could not pass on a message to Babar and told him to go for the kill"

    “So, I think he is consistently making mistakes in the captaincy and we always think that he’ll learn things soon but he is not. It’s about time Babar. The world cup is nearing up and we do not have room for blunders now and if you still keep on making mistakes then I do not think we would be able to win it"


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  68. #68
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    Azam's status and Rizwan's piety were protecting them for too long. People are waking up now and I'm glad they're getting heat now as at the end of the day, results matter not individual piety or rankings.

  69. #69
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    He might be right but I hate how these ex-cricketers just chat all day as if they've done a lot for pakistani cricket.

    Like mate what really have you won for Pakistan?

  70. #70
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    More gold from Aqib

    When we play against Karachi and we have a total of 180 or so, we have never tried too hard or wanted too badly to get Babar Azam out. Because he plays at his own pace and the required rate keeps increasing," Javed said.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    It’s tough isn’t it when everything you stood for in the name of data/analytics is being smashed to smithereens by basic logic.

    A storm is coming. Be prepared
    I pity those people who have to become spokesperson of spot fixers and have to defend 68 SR type innings.

  72. #72
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    So Moin Khan Aaqib Javed all lining up against Babar clan
    Hidden reasons may be Moin bitter at Azam fatsu not selected and Aaqib may ne wants the baton be passed to SSA
    Babar Azam despite his non alignment as T20 player is still the best batsman in Pakistan
    Its like a country having a world class player in certain position then their formation will be according to that player you can't play with 4 strikers when you have 4 World class defenders fact fact fact

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minnowbasher View Post
    He might be right but I hate how these ex-cricketers just chat all day as if they've done a lot for pakistani cricket.

    Like mate what really have you won for Pakistan?
    Just a World Cup…not a big deal or anything🤣


    Bring Back Umar Akmal

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    More from Aaqib:

    "When you knew that the World Cup was happening, and even today, the selection is doubtful. Because they should have done this six or eight months back, that this is our squad of 20 players. And there's a reasoning for that"

    "You have openers, no.3, middle order, lower middle order... you should know what your batting composition is."

    "If someone gets out early, who can come and consolidate, build a little and then score quickly later on... I don't see anyone like that in the team"

    "And that has become the mindset that we have to keep these two openers. The two openers are effective, but where? For scores under 150-160. They are suitable for that"

    "When we play against Karachi and we have a total of 180 or so, we have never tried too hard or wanted too badly to get Babar Azam out. Because he plays at his own pace and the required rate keeps increasing"

    "Rizwan is also similar. No doubt he played very well in the PSL, but when these two play together, then you have two performers of the same type."
    Wow, teams are really doing it.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard

    The most embarrassing match for a Pakistani captain in PSL history! Man came back to the shed 90* with 4 wickets remaining

    But as usual, PCB and his fans just stuck their head in the sand.
    What he could have done? He is a limited batsman and did his best according to his skills.

    Pakistan's problem is that you can't ask Babar or Rizwan to bat lower. They have pretty much no game for it. Opening is the only place they could contribute something.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Team Strategy is the problem. It's way too defensive. We need to do away with this 90's philosophy of keeping wickets in hand and leaving a RR of 15 per over for the middle order.

    The hitters need to be made to bat the maximum number of overs to allow them to get their eye in before going for the big shots.
    if you add Haider and Shan to the mix the top four looks a bit better. I believe the problem we had was with numbers 3 and 4.

    Fakhar had the chance to come into the powerplay multiple times and showed us that he is a dud.

    Babar and Rizwan are good players. I back them to adjust their games and come back strong.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Wow, teams are really doing it.
    This is very common - teams used to do that with Misbah too. I’m pretty sure they do that with Azhar aswell

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    This is very common - teams used to do that with Misbah too. I’m pretty sure they do that with Azhar aswell
    I thought we joke as fans... I never heard any high profile players saying it. Anyway, I guess if you want to win then you want slower players to play as long as possible. Misbah I can surely understand, but Babar can score faster than Misbah.
    Last edited by Buffet; 18th September 2022 at 02:34.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  79. #79
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    Rizwan’s s/r has been down because of the places he has been playing. In 2021/2 he has played in West Indies, Pak, Mirpur and UAE. Look at his sr by country.


    OK, he is no Virat Kohli in full flow, but why expect him to be? He is still a match winning bat, and I believe Babar and Riz have scored highly as well when the conditions allow for it.

    Sure, Asia cup final, probably not his best innings, but what about all those match winning innings he’s played?
    Last edited by FreePalestine; 18th September 2022 at 02:36.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    I thought we joke as fans... I never heard any high profile players saying it. Anyway, I guess if you want to win then you want slower players to play as long as possible. Misbah I can surely understand, but Babar can score faster than Misbah.
    Babar most likely knows it and doesn’t mind it either

    He gets to score his 50 and his stocks do not drop.

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