If Kamran is unavailable, who will keep in the WC?

[Sledger]

Well it won't be


I think the few main candidates are;

Adnan Akmal - List A avg 21.50 (best of 70) in 51 games.
Sarfraz Ahmed - List A avg 27.93 (best of 101) in 54 games.
Bismillah Khan - List A avg 22.12 (best of 72) in 9 games.

Kamran's comparative List A stats were 28.33 (best 133) in 217 games (inc. ODIs).

Another choice might be a part timer like Umar Akmal but wickets and conditions could be tough for a non-specialist. Although, despite a tiny sample of 2 games, Umar Akmal averages 37 with the bat when keeping in ODIs. During the game he did the role for the full 50 overs he scored 60. Younis Khan has also done the job in ODIs in the past but is very much a part time wk.

Who will it be?

[Down2Earth]

taufeeq umar, he'd open with hafeez and terrorise the world

[JibranAnsari]

its gonna be umar akmal and i havent seen any flaws from him behind the wickets or perhaps he hasnt been tested with the difficult ones.

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by JibranAnsari its gonna be umar akmal and i havent seen any flaws from him behind the wickets or perhaps he hasnt been tested with the difficult ones.

watch carefully, he's running away from the ball and he just casually walks up to the stumps isn't even there when the fielder has picked up the ball he has a very bad technique

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by FastBowler watch carefully, he's running away from the ball and he just casually walks up to the stumps isn't even there when the fielder has picked up the ball he has a very bad technique

We agree on something.Qayamat ki nasjanyan.

[1137moiz]

Originally Posted by saeed-sohail We agree on something.Qayamat ki nasjanyan.

I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship

[Dr_Bassim]

I wouldnt put it pakistani think tank

To put the pressure of wicket keeping on the poor Umar Akmal and expect him to pile on runs as a batsmen, at the cost of playing an extra useless batsmen.

And then kick him out, when he doesnt cope with that pressure.

P.S Edited : I should have added past some of the fans too, who want him to play dual role

[Afridi_Fan]

Umar Akmal.

[Afridirocks]

Umar Akmal

[Faisalabadimunda]

Umar akmal attari...

[JibranAnsari]

Originally Posted by Faisalabadimunda Umar akmal attari...

is it his nick? attari? there was a game called atari when i was young.

[Cover Drive]

If Adnan performs well in the coming test series then it will be Adnan for sure.

I don't think they will gamble Bismillah Khan

[Rana]

Umar Akmal, a very handy batsmen.

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by Cover Drive If Adnan performs well in the coming test series then it will be Adnan for sure. I don't think they will gamble Bismillah Khan

they can gamble on adnan but they can't on bismillah. one bats at 7 and scores 20's and 30's, the other opens and smashes centuries. they obviously picked the wrong one

[Cover Drive]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth they can gamble on adnan but they can't on bismillah. one bats at 7 and scores 20's and 30's, the other opens and smashes centuries. they obviously picked the wrong one

How much first class experience does Bismillah Khan have?

If Adnan is selected then he has at least played at international level.

[JibranAnsari]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth they can gamble on adnan but they can't on bismillah. one bats at 7 and scores 20's and 30's, the other opens and smashes centuries. they obviously picked the wrong one

is bismillah khan that good?

[Sledger]

Umar Akmal was a good outfielder though. He's been at slip in tests and after watching that, I don't trust his catching at all.

[sam]

Any Akmal

[JibranAnsari]

bismillah khan is very very young and hasnt played much FC cricket.needs to mature.

[Dr_Bassim]

Originally Posted by JibranAnsari bismillah khan is very very young and hasnt played much FC cricket.needs to mature.

We like killing careers by drafting them in early.

Remember Hasan Raza ?

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim We like killing careers by drafting them in early. Remember Hasan Raza ?

As if he has become Bradman now.

[JibranAnsari]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan As if he has become Bradman now.

He hasnt played for pakistan for along time now but his domestic record is great though he isnt a big talent.

[AZ]

I remember Dravid kept in the 2003 WC, but I personally don't think its a viable option.

should be Adi if Kami can't make it.

[Desi_Joker]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar I remember Dravid kept in the 2003 WC, but I personally don't think its a viable option. should be Adi if Kami can't make it.

I don't really see anything wrong with Umi (as that seems to be the trend for nicknames) keeping? Maybe test him further in domestic cricket with the gloves and well telling him in advance might help (like... now!)

[Bilal.0]

I have a feeling that the ban trio and Kami will be back for the world cup.. This is just a gut feeling..

If not, we would have to put our faith into Adnan... if he is really terrible than Umar Akmal might have to take up the keeping duties.

[AZ]

his batting will suffer in the long run, its just too much to expect from a youngster.

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar his batting will suffer in the long run, its just too much to expect from a youngster.

Esp looking at lack of batting talent Umar should be groomed to lead this batting line up when Ys leave in near future.

[cricket47]

If kamran is kept out, then only other option we have is Umar.. because if we try to adjust any other keeper in the playing 11 .. we are going to suffer because they are not capable batsmen!

[AZ]

Originally Posted by cricket47 If kamran is kept out, then only other option we have is Umar.. because if we try to adjust any other keeper in the playing 11 .. we are going to suffer because they are not capable batsmen!

If we are expecting a bloke batting at number 8 to be important for batting then we are already in deep trouble.

[cricket47]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar If we are expecting a bloke batting at number 8 to be important for batting then we are already in deep trouble.

hmm but we cant actually expect a keeper like Zoni either because it messes up the balance .. did you see how much he struggled to even get singles let alone boundaries...

look at all the other teams, all their keepers are more then capable batsmen ...

perfect example is South Africa.. they dropped M. Boucher and made AB Devillers keep, only in effort the make their team more balanced outfit.. and common, they already have their top 4 batsmen in top 10 ODI batting list, yet they are trying to make their best batsmen to take the gloves, to give their team an even more balance.. then why cant pakistan do the same??

[Zaheer Abbas's Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket47 hmm but we cant actually expect a keeper like Zoni either because it messes up the balance .. did you see how much he struggled to even get singles let alone boundaries... look at all the other teams, all their keepers are more then capable batsmen ... perfect example is South Africa.. they dropped M. Boucher and made AB Devillers keep, only in effort the make their team more balanced outfit.. and common, they already have their top 4 batsmen in top 10 ODI batting list, yet they are trying to make their best batsmen to take the gloves, to give their team an even more balance.. then why cant pakistan do the same??

big difference. AB DeVilliers used to be a keeper batsman originally but batted so well he forced his way into national team as a pure batsman so a year or two later when they asked him to keep again he already had excellent keeping skills as he had played as a full time wicketkeeper for many years previously.

[Desi_Joker]

Originally Posted by cricket47 If kamran is kept out, then only other option we have is Umar.. because if we try to adjust any other keeper in the playing 11 .. we are going to suffer because they are not capable batsmen!

Chalo shaabaash Bismillah karo.

[sanakazmi]

bismillah khan has such an awesome name! imagine "opening the batting today is bismillah..."

[eViLrAcEr]

Originally Posted by sanakazmi bismillah khan has such an awesome name! imagine "opening the batting today is bismillah..."

imagine under Inzi during match presentation: "Bismillah is played really well, boys is also played good but Bismillah MashAllah SubhanAllah"

[saeed-sohail]

@sanakazmi. Naam hi kaafi hai.

[WithLoveFromCanada]

umar akmal

[*sallu*]

[Afridi_Fan]

Mods, a poll?

[Afridirocks]

maybe the BEAST ??

he can wicket keeper when hes not bowling, LOL

he does everything, might as well wicketkeep as well

"JUST SARCASM"

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by Afridirocks maybe the BEAST ?? he can wicket keeper when hes not bowling, LOL he does everything, might as well wicketkeep as well "JUST SARCASM"

[*sallu*]

Has to be Umar Akmal.

The rest can't bat.
It will virtually be 10 vs 11 if we select a keeper who can't bat. Much like the RSA series

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Has to be Umar Akmal. The rest can't bat. It will virtually be 10 vs 11 if we select a keeper who can't bat. Much like the RSA series

The impossible happened. For once both of us agree on one thing.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan The impossible happened. For once both of us agree on one thing.

=

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by *sallu* =

Don't start it.

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by *sallu* =

Never.

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by saeed-sohail Never.

Absolutely nailed it.

Now, I know what will you say. But I also know what you meant in the 1st place.

[Poison]

Umar's keeping is technically pretty poor. Can't expect him to keep on wickets that are turning.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Poison Umar's keeping is technically pretty poor. Can't expect him to keep on wickets that are turning.

Its not the worst I've seen.

3-4 months of good practice will make him a reasonable option. Especially if pitches are flat, the keeper will hardly be tested.

You rarely get rank turners in LOIs anymore

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by *sallu* 3-4 months of good practice will make him a reasonable option. Especially if pitches are flat, the keeper will hardly be tested. You rarely get rank turners in LOIs anymore

Imo, it will be a big challenge for a newbie to keep in SL. Contrart to popular belief that's where Kamran's rot as a keeper started, it was only magnified x10 in the England tour. The ball wobbles after pitching so you can expect U Akmal to shell a few against faster bowlers unless he surprises everyone and becomes a real revelation. I don't expect the Indian wickets too easy either with variable bounce and some turn.

[Qelic]

Someone who is a proper reliable batsman too .

[Amjid Javed]

In regards to ODIs pakistan need to get a keeper whose compitent and can do a job with the bat at top of the order or late down the order.

I dont think Safraz can do that.

Adnan Akmal may get job if he does well in chances he gets now.

Muhammed salman of Faisalabad would be another option!

[cricketpassion]

Umar Akmal will be best option , as it give us option to play extra batsman or Bowler

[Maula Jutt]

Someone who doesn't fix matches and someone who doesn't ditch his team mid-tour.

Hmmm, it's a tough one.

[cricketpassion]

Originally Posted by Maula Jutt Someone who doesn't fix matches and someone who doesn't ditch his team mid-tour. Hmmm, it's a tough one.

I think we should call back

[iZeeshan]

In ODIs on subcontinents where wickets are hard to come by, you need an absolute, top class keeper to take every chance possible.

From what I've seen, Umar Akmal can get the 'job done' but he's by no means superb. Plus, I truly believe that in subcontinent tracks, we won't need to bat that low down anyway, as the top and middle order should pick most of the runs. If they don't, then we don't really deserve to win in the first place.

So my vote will go to Adnan Akmal. And who knows? Maybe he'll be able to open.

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by iZeeshan I truly believe that in subcontinent tracks, we won't need to bat that low down anyway, as the top and middle order should pick most of the runs. If they don't, then we don't really deserve to win in the first place.

I don't agree. Batting all the way down is the modern way, the teams who are doing well in all formats are the ones who have very few/no genuine tailenders. Look at the Asia cup played there where Harbhajan finished the game for India and Pakistan's long tail couldn't dot the i on Afridi's hundred.

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by cricketpassion I think we should call back

See criteria #1.

all the way.

[mon858]

i would rather have a specialist keeper, whoever is best among adnan/sarfraz/bismillah.... the reason:

one of the main ways for us to come back into matches/ win matches are through breakthroughs in the middle overs when our spinners are bowling, or a quick (shoaib or someone) came back into attack w/o slip to take crucial wicket through an edge to the keeper which would normally be taken by first slip.

[KingKhanWC]

Umar, we can't afford a weak batsmen.

[Indiafan]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Umar, we can't afford a weak batsmen.

But you can afford a weak keeper? Particularly considering that your bowling attack might be a bit weak ATM?

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Indiafan But you can afford a weak keeper? Particularly considering that your bowling attack might be a bit weak ATM?

Well all keepers drop chances and Umar looked very comfortable behind the stumps in the 5th ODI. Having him keep will allow us to play an extra quick/spinner if required. If not we will have a strong batting line up and this will be needed as 300 will be a par score.

[iZeeshan]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Well all keepers drop chances and Umar looked very comfortable behind the stumps in the 5th ODI. Having him keep will allow us to play an extra quick/spinner if required. If not we will have a strong batting line up and this will be needed as 300 will be a par score.

All keepers drop catches? Where'd you get that notion mate? And even it were true, doesn't it make sense to fix that problem?

Agree with AZ, Umar is not an option. Specialist keeper is the way to go.

[AZ]

Umar Akmal is not an option...this is a World Cup, can't go into it with quick fixes.

please move on.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar Umar Akmal is not an option...this is a World Cup, can't go into it with quick fixes. please move on.

World Cup is 3 months away

He has shown potential with the gloves

India showed success with Dravid until they found MSD, South Africa are currently showing success with ABCD.

We just can't go in playing 10 players vs 11 from the other side.

Unless you can find me someone who can bat, we will have to make do with Umar Akmal.
Especially now that it looks like Ajmal may not be a regular member of the side. He was really the one guy who would test a part time keeper.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by *sallu* World Cup is 3 months away He has shown potential with the gloves India showed success with Dravid until they found MSD, South Africa are currently showing success with ABCD. We just can't go in playing 10 players vs 11 from the other side. Unless you can find me someone who can bat, we will have to make do with Umar Akmal. Especially now that it looks like Ajmal may not be a regular member of the side. He was really the one guy who would test a part time keeper.

3 Months, and how many ODIs away?

Dravid did the keeping role for a very long time, it wasn't an idea they thought of overnight, and even then he was steady at best.

keeper at 8, isn't supposed to be winning us a game anyway.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar 3 Months, and how many ODIs away? Dravid did the keeping role for a very long time, it wasn't an idea they thought of overnight, and even then he was steady at best. keeper at 8, isn't supposed to be winning us a game anyway.

But he isn't supposed to lose us games as well.
We lost the 3rd game in the RSA series that could've been won had we a good number 8.

Which team in the world has the tail starting from number 8?
And even the teams that do have such a long tail, have it because they play the extra bowler, so atleast their bowling is strong.

We play 3 and a half bowler and despite of that, because we have a keeper who can't bat, we end up playing only 7 batsman.
Thats a recipe for disaster

Definitely need a keeper who is good enough to at least makes 20s and 30s consistently if not better.

Umar Akmal at the moment is a good choice, you are acting like he can't keep at all. From what I've seen, technically he just needs to work on a couple of small things, and if he can practice hard for 3 months, keep in a series, keep in the warm up games before the world cup, keep in domestic games in the middle, he'll have a good 15-20 game experience of keeping full-time and will be able to do a good job.

[Sledger]

I'm also hoping they'll chose a specialist. If Adnan doesn't perform well in these SA tests then Pakistan will have a real problem because Sarfraz Ahmed is mediocre with bat and gloves from what I've seen on the int stage.

[Sledger]

AB Devilliers was used in a T20 game against Pak as keeper way back in 06, possibly some ODIs as well. He has only been slowly given additional responsibility over time. People are forgetting that U Akmal only donned the gloves about 7 or so ODIs ago in England and he's only done the job twice. If his catching in test cricket is anything to go by, I'm surprised how much faith people are putting in him.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Sledger AB Devilliers was used in a T20 game against Pak as keeper way back in 06, possibly some ODIs as well. He has only been slowly given additional responsibility over time. People are forgetting that U Akmal only donned the gloves about 7 or so ODIs ago in England and he's only done the job twice. If his catching in test cricket is anything to go by, I'm surprised how much faith people are putting in him.

Yes, AB had a keeping history so perhaps he is a bad example.

But, I just can't see how we'll win a world cup with someone who can't bat.

Umar has the potential. 3 months of hard work and he might just make it to the bare minimum international standards of keeping.

[AZ]

IIRC he debuted for RSA as a keeper, vs. England

[TigerJat]

I would try Umar some more in the NZL ODI series, if he doesn't work out then Sarfaraz Ahmed.

I think Bismillah Khan is only on the PP radar at this point

[Sledger]

Well I think its back to square one. I don't see a big risk difference in playing a specialist keeper who's an ok bat than a part time keeper who is an above average bat (in team context). Wasn't there a thread working out how much Akmal's drops and missed stumpings cost and how much they outweighed his batting efforts? Think that was very one sided.

[KingKhanWC]

The scoring will be very high and batsmen will have to go hell for leather from over no.1 to over no.50. Razzaq coming in at 8 is the way to go but this can only happen if Umar is keeper.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Sledger Well I think its back to square one. I don't see a big risk difference in playing a specialist keeper who's an ok bat than a part time keeper who is an above average bat (in team context). Wasn't there a thread working out how much Akmal's drops and missed stumpings cost and how much they outweighed his batting efforts? Think that was very one sided.

That was test cricket, where those chances tend to cost you lots and lots of runs.

Its slightly less harmful to the side in the shorter formats.

Also, don't forget about the balance of the side.

Keeping with Umar instead of someone like Zoni, Safraz etc will also allow yet another extra batsman to play, so don't forget his contribution to the side as well.

And of course, as I've said, I don't think, conditions will be as challenging in an ODI, that too if the conditions are flat because
(i) Keepers stamina is not tested
(ii) Pitch doesn't crumble, not much variable bounce and turn in LOIs
(iii) If pitch is flat, not many edges and plays and misses

If he puts in hard work between now and the world cup, there is no reason why he wouldn't be able to put in an acceptable performance

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Its slightly less harmful to the side in the shorter formats.

Well in a WC nobody will forget these little mistakes, especially if he ruins a potential game turning moment. I agree with your point about the team balance, that's what makes this such a problem. If they give Umar sound warning now, maybe he could be trialed in the NZ series and then they will review if he's good enough. BUT then.. will his batting practice suffer? And lets face it, he needs that to be his main role. Or will him trying to become a good keeper in such a short amount of time have no affect on his batting?

[W63L35]

Originally Posted by Sledger If Kamran is unavailable, who will keep in the WC?

Kamran Akmal "kept" wickets? That's news to me.

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Sledger Well in a WC nobody will forget these little mistakes, especially if he ruins a potential game turning moment. I agree with your point about the team balance, that's what makes this such a problem. If they give Umar sound warning now, maybe he could be trialed in the NZ series and then they will review if he's good enough. BUT then.. will his batting practice suffer? And lets face it, he needs that to be his main role. Or will him trying to become a good keeper in such a short amount of time have no affect on his batting?

Well history at least has suggested that guys not used to keeping haven't allowed the extra responsibility make them suffer in their batting.
Dravid, AB De Villiers and Brendan Taylor are the 3 examples that I can think of

And my entire idea that he should keep is based on the fact that they should give him notice and time.
He should start practicing and mentally preparing himself, not from next month, or next week, not tomorrow. Right Now.

They can try him out for the New Zealand, and if he does badly, they can have another review from there

[rhussain33]

Originally Posted by iZeeshan In ODIs on subcontinents where wickets are hard to come by, you need an absolute, top class keeper to take every chance possible. From what I've seen, Umar Akmal can get the 'job done' but he's by no means superb. Plus, I truly believe that in subcontinent tracks, we won't need to bat that low down anyway, as the top and middle order should pick most of the runs. If they don't, then we don't really deserve to win in the first place. So my vote will go to Adnan Akmal. And who knows? Maybe he'll be able to open.

Top post...

If we are playing Malik then we wont need that extra spinner as Afridi, Hafeez and Malik combined should do a fine job.

with Wahab playing as the third Seamer, who we know can hit a few big winnings runs, that gives us space for a real specialist keeper even though hes an average bat. Dont mind who, Bismillah, Adnan, Sarfraz, as long as his keepings top notch.

[saeed-sohail]

Would we have won the 92 WC without Moin,s contribution with the bat in the semis?

[FastBowler]

Why is Umar being considered at all? He's an extremely poor keeper, Younus was a better keeper than him, is he being considered just because he's an Akmal?