"Amir is Emotionally Drained" : Shahid Karim

[Saj]

"Amir has been hit hard emotionally and financially. So early in his career, he's been hit by this huge scandal. This is the type of scandal that is literally unprecedented in the cricketing world."

"Nothing of this proportion has ever happened before with so much hype surrounding it and with the kind of recordings that have been created against these players. Emotionally he is drained, he's been affected badly by it, but he's coping as best he can and above all he is very confident that he will come out of this clean."

"There are certain mitigating circumstances and factors in Amir's case that were spelt out in the initial hearing also. One of the mitigating factors is age and the other mitigating factor is Amir's previously unblemished record."

[Saj]

An extremely interesting interview with Amir's lawyer Shahid Karim today, which will be published on PakPassion fully tomorrow.

[PakistanCricketForever!]

Originally Posted by Saj An extremely interesting interview with Amir's lawyer Shahid Karim today, which will be published on PakPassion fully tomorrow.

For some reason amir and butt have been comming out really confident of becoming confident bout being clean

[Down2Earth]

if he did nothing wrong, he would have been in new zealand. Actions have consequences.

[161]

Well I'd be drained too if I was trying to back up the lies of S. Butt and countless other Pak fixers before him.

Aamir .. if you're reading this come clean and apologize.

The ICC will have sympathy for you.

You still have the opportunity of having a long and successful career.

[Zamee]

Originally Posted by PakistanCricketForever! For some reason amir and butt have been comming out really confident of becoming confident bout being clean

yeah they are innocent for now !!

[hashbb]

Hay..... Amir ....miss you

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by kashif77 Well I'd be drained too if I was trying to back up the lies of S. Butt and countless other Pak fixers before him. Aamir .. if you're reading this come clean and apologize. The ICC will have sympathy for you. You still have the opportunity of having a long and successful career.

Agreed.Come clean and expose the experienced fixers who led you astray.Nation will forgive you in no time and you will have long career like Gibbs.

[Maula Jutt]

Amir please come clean and save your career!

I dont enjoy cricket as much as I used to when he was in the team

[blinding light]

Aamer!!

[Zamee]

Even if he is cleared he wont be selected just like kamran and shoaib malik!

[Impala_KaifTamasha]

You would be drained after everything thats happened, the world at your feet and then bieng left in the gutter by your board.

IMO a key thing to be noted is that Asif hasnt come out pubicly and said anything which could indicate that he knows that their all guilty and he doesnt really care if their banned or not.

[ballack13]

SAJ bhai any chance of him being saved from this.

[atif.raza]

Originally Posted by Saj "There are certain mitigating circumstances and factors in Amir's case that were spelt out in the initial hearing also. One of the mitigating factors is age and the other mitigating factor is Amir's previously unblemished record."

ah-ha, so he's basically saying that because of Amir age, he should not get the same amount of ban as Amir and Asif. In other words, he is accepting that his client is indeed guilty but due to the mitigating circumstances can get away with little to no punishment?

[ballack13]

Originally Posted by atif.raza ah-ha, so he's basically saying that because of Amir age, he should not get the same amount of ban as Amir and Asif. In other words, he is accepting that his client is indeed guilty but due to the mitigating circumstances can get away with little to no punishment?

and they already said no leniency because of age etc

[Pakprideuk]

It's the same with all court hearings isn't it. Come out clean the first time in a court and have a shortened time out. Keep fighting and then be gobsmacked when they show you the proof clearly then suffer a long time out of the game.

He should just go there and say, yes i'm guilty and say everything that happened, everything will be clear and he'll have a minimal ban. He shouldn't care about Salman Butt or Asif, they aren't nothing special well not as special as him. As for Butt with the openers we have coming through and our two current openers, his test career is in doubt anyway.

[sanakazmi]

Saj can you PLEASE stress upon Shahid Karim to get him to come clean.

[cricket_fever]

Amir

[cricket_fever]

Originally Posted by sanakazmi Saj can you PLEASE stress upon Shahid Karim to get him to come clean.

sana,

isn't that Mr Karims job anyways?

[Hash]

Oh the poor baby is feeling drained. Maybe he should have thought of that before becoming Mazhar and Salman's little puppy dog.

And I don't understand this mitigating circumstances comment. That would only apply if he was guilty.....if he is innocent, then what mitigating circumstances could there possibly be? And why would they matter, since he has done nothing wrong?

He's as guilty as guilty gets. He got caught red handed. Would have been much better for him if he had just admitted it from the beginning. He would have got sympathy and no doubt leniency from everyone.

By harping on at this lie to protect Salman Butt, he is only showing a complete lack of remorse or sorrow for what he has done. I hope he never plays cricket again in his life.....bar in the park with his 12 year old friends. Maybe even a few months in a British jail if the CPS play ball. That will hopefully teach our future generations to stay away from this menace.

[FastBowler]

I hope that Aamer gets a fair hearing, I don't think he's guilty.

[zulfi00]

Originally Posted by kashif77 Well I'd be drained too if I was trying to back up the lies of S. Butt and countless other Pak fixers before him. Aamir .. if you're reading this come clean and apologize. The ICC will have sympathy for you. You still have the opportunity of having a long and successful career.

Well he is unfortunately being misguided by someone that he should keep his lips tight to the lies. He should come out and give fair share of the blame to the Captain and senior who mis guided him.

[zulfi00]

Originally Posted by Zamee Even if he is cleared he wont be selected just like kamran and shoaib malik!

His case is different than Kamran, Malik or Butt, these three are slightly above average and could easily be replaced with likes of Hafeez and Afridi, but Aamir is different talent.

If he gets cleared he will on next flight to join the team.

[FastBowler]

If I was Aamer I'm not sure I'd even want to come back to Pakistan cricket, and definitely not if I saw some comments like are made on this forum, I'd say what the hell are these the people I'm playing for? I don't owe them anything and they come and judge me who the hell do they think they are?
Anyways, then I'd just want to get my name cleared.

[amirfanforlife]

All you people that are against him at this time, will start to cheer him on if he comes out clean and starts to play for Pak again.
Leave them when they're in trouble but cheer them on when they start to take wickets and make runs. Great fans, I must say !
Bloody hell, you just can't seem to see his pain. Even if he is guilty, he's suffered enough imo and no one in their right mind would do anything like this again after going through all this.
He's innocent until proven otherwise.

[90MPH]

I just hope he admits what he has done as he has the most evidence out of of the three.

But if he keeps crying he is innocent then I will have less sympathy for him.

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by 90MPH I just hope he admits what he has done as he has the most evidence out of of the three. But if he keeps crying he is innocent then I will have less sympathy for him.

He doesn't care about your sympathy, he's not aware of your existence, you're a nobody in his life, nothing you do will affect him cuz you're a nobody in his life, you have no importance for him. Get it?

[cricketpassion]

Miss you Amir

[IAJ]

I feel sorry for the lad. Such a talent misguided by some already corrupt players and a stupid bookie.

Even if he is guilty I hope ICC don't give him lifeban. He is such a young boy and I am sure he has realised the mistakes he has made.

Now some posters must be thinking I am talking crap but he deserves another chance. If he makes same mistake again then I won't have any sympathy for him.

[Omar Malik]

Originally Posted by 90MPH I just hope he admits what he has done as he has the most evidence out of of the three. But if he keeps crying he is innocent then I will have less sympathy for him.

This.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

[Faisalabadimunda]

I dont know but i can see the trio being banned. My feeling just says they wont get banned.

[amirfanforlife]

Originally Posted by 90MPH I just hope he admits what he has done as he has the most evidence out of of the three. But if he keeps crying he is innocent then I will have less sympathy for him.

Erm... has it ever occured to you that maybe.. just maybe he keeps 'crying' that he's innocent, because... well... he is innocent?

I mean it's just a thought that crossed my mind.

[Maula Jutt]

This is a cruel world. I am half persuaded to take my boy out of this planet and go settle in Mars. We'll introduce cricket to the Martians and I'm sure they'll value him more than people here. I will be his manager and let me assure you, his autographed pictures at that time will cost you guys no less than a couple million dollars at least. And that's just on paper. His signed caps, t-shirts, bats and balls.. forget about ever owning them. Only nations will be able to buy them and that too after taking out loans from IMF.

[kingusama92]

My advice to Amir is simple.

1) If you are innocent - stick to your guns. Don't let anyone force you into a corner. Fight all the way through and I am sure you will come out of it clean. Don't give yourself up when you haven't done the crime.

2) If you aren't innocent - forget saving the others. Give yourself up and take the consequences that come up and be an honest person. This is the time to correct mistakes you've made - something many individuals don't get a chance to do in their lives, but you have that chance.


We'll see what happens in the court cases (this one and a possible one in front of CAS). All three have my support until they are undoubtedly proven guilty. If they are proven guilty then I really don't want to see mitigating circumstances come up. They deserve a full and proper ban from international cricket.

[blinding light]

Originally Posted by amirfanforlife All you people that are against him at this time, will start to cheer him on if he comes out clean and starts to play for Pak again. Leave them when they're in trouble but cheer them on when they start to take wickets and make runs. Great fans, I must say ! Bloody hell, you just can't seem to see his pain. Even if he is guilty, he's suffered enough imo and no one in their right mind would do anything like this again after going through all this. He's innocent until proven otherwise.

Well said!

Originally Posted by Maula Jutt This is a cruel world. I am half persuaded to take my boy out of this planet and go settle in Mars. We'll introduce cricket to the Martians and I'm sure they'll value him more than people here. I will be his manager and let me assure you, his autographed pictures at that time will cost you guys no less than a couple million dollars at least. And that's just on paper. His signed caps, t-shirts, bats and balls.. forget about ever owning them. Only nations will be able to buy them and that too after taking out loans from IMF.

What about the other half?

Originally Posted by kingusama92 My advice to Amir is simple. 1) If you are innocent - stick to your guns. Don't let anyone force you into a corner. Fight all the way through and I am sure you will come out of it clean. Don't give yourself up when you haven't done the crime. 2) If you aren't innocent - forget saving the others. Give yourself up and take the consequences that come up and be an honest person. This is the time to correct mistakes you've made - something many individuals don't get a chance to do in their lives, but you have that chance. We'll see what happens in the court cases (this one and a possible one in front of CAS). All three have my support until they are undoubtedly proven guilty. If they are proven guilty then I really don't want to see mitigating circumstances come up. They deserve a full and proper ban from international cricket.

POTW please!!

[Cosmic]

Amir Seems Innocent As i assumed Mr.Butt & Mr.Asif Influnce him to do bad....How Such A wonderful Bowler Career In A limbo . If Amir Was An Indian Bowler He Would have been Clear In a Month How Sad...

[Sherlock]

What makes peeps think Amir will plead leniency. He's come this far claiming his innocence, what makes you think he'll change it now. Things have moved too far, too fast.

When Amir does plead not-guilty he'll have to be prepared to face the consequences, even if he is innocent. The ICC want to make an example out of these players.

[Maula Jutt]

Originally Posted by blinding light What about the other half?

The other half is concerned about those little things like living conditions on Mars, the mode of transportation, the presence of any life form resembling even worms, let alone humans, and the faint possibility of getting kicked out of the gate by Amir after I present this wonderful idea to him.

[insaaniyat]

Originally Posted by FastBowler He doesn't care about your sympathy, he's not aware of your existence, you're a nobody in his life, nothing you do will affect him cuz you're a nobody in his life, you have no importance for him. Get it?

But collectively he better know who we are. Let me remind him, we are proud Pakistani and we will not let few corrupt people hijack our integrity.

[atif.raza]

I really don't get how some of the regular and sensible posters here are talking along the lines of 'If he is not guilty then ....." Have you got no eyes? What evidence could there possibly exist that can be more convincing as the one that has been presented? Are you really buying "It was a co-incidence" story? How can anyone with an IQ of more than 50 believe for one second that those no balls were not pre-planned. Get real guys. All the evidence points against Amir and any sympathy that he could have received from the fans went down the drain when he decided to not come out clean.

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth if he did nothing wrong, he would have been in new zealand. Actions have consequences.

The actions of your British media not of Aamer himself. There isn't a shred of evidence against him that would stand up in a fair and impartial hearing.

[786..BAZ]

all 3 are going to the world cup but i dont know in what year??

[PakistanCricketForever!]

They will be going to the wc close to never. Or even In hell

[JellyBro]

Originally Posted by atif.raza I really don't get how some of the regular and sensible posters here are talking along the lines of 'If he is not guilty then ....." Have you got no eyes? What evidence could there possibly exist that can be more convincing as the one that has been presented? Are you really buying "It was a co-incidence" story? How can anyone with an IQ of more than 50 believe for one second that those no balls were not pre-planned. Get real guys. All the evidence points against Amir and any sympathy that he could have received from the fans went down the drain when he decided to not come out clean.

my sentiments exactly!
Its funny how they're 2 different types of support groups for Aamer. One group totally ignores the evidence and is adamant that the trio did absolutely nothing wrong. The 2nd group believes that the trio are guilty but Aamer was dragged into all of this with manipulation. Excuse me but an 18 yr old is more than capable of making wise decisions. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out the difference b/w right and wrong.....

[NO 1 AFRIDI FAN]

Why are you so negative support our players. I dont mind if salman gets banned because there are many other great openerseg our openers in tests and hafeez and kami. but asif and amir need to carry on playing they are the best opening bowling pair ever, ever.

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth if he did nothing wrong, he would have been in new zealand. Actions have consequences.

I seriously think this bloke is Indian. Why don't you give your personal opinions and make use of "I Think"

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by kashif77 Well I'd be drained too if I was trying to back up the lies of S. Butt and countless other Pak fixers before him. Aamir .. if you're reading this come clean and apologize. The ICC will have sympathy for you. You still have the opportunity of having a long and successful career.

You have to be kidding me. ICC doesn't have sympathy for anyone, they have already stated there intentions. Looking back at when i was 18 i would have opened my mouth by now. either hes innocent or hes backing up Butt

[Gabbar Singh]

Originally Posted by FastBowler He doesn't care about your sympathy, he's not aware of your existence, you're a nobody in his life, nothing you do will affect him cuz you're a nobody in his life, you have no importance for him. Get it?

You make a good point.

Someone who is willing to unlawfully alter his performance during a match for the sake of money and then lie about it to protect other fixers probably does see his 'fans' as 'nobodies'.

[asadee]

Aaj jo boye ga kaate ga kal!

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by blinding light Well said! What about the other half? POTW please!!

You summed things up great, and i love the quote you have at the bottom by Malcolm X
thanx

[Maula Jutt]

Originally Posted by Danish407 my sentiments exactly! Its funny how they're 2 different types of support groups for Aamer. One group totally ignores the evidence and is adamant that the trio did absolutely nothing wrong. The 2nd group believes that the trio are guilty but Aamer was dragged into all of this with manipulation. Excuse me but an 18 yr old is more than capable of making wise decisions. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out the difference b/w right and wrong.....

Though I agree with you in principle, I do not agree with the bolded part. It stinks of over self-righteousness which does not suit humans in general, let alone a group of people. Looks great in books though.

What he did is wrong but - and dont take it as a personal attack, I am just giving a general view - people sitting in a country where doing the wrong thing is neither desirable most of the times nor practical have no idea of the kind of affect the environment or culture like one in in Pakistan can have on a person, regardless of his age. Yes what he did was wrong. We can keep repeating this like a broken record and it wont be unjustified. But words like, 'differentiating between wrong and right is not difficult' (which I keep hearing a lot on this forum) is just plain ignorant at best and hypocritical at worst.

Most of us, including me, are convinced that he did the wrong thing by getting involved in spot fixing. But that fact by default makes him a very selfish person. If you cheat on your country, your fans, family and friends for your own personal gain, you are a very selfish person. Period.

So what makes us think that he is devoted to his captain and a fellow teammate, so much so that he would risk his own career trying to save their backs? If he fixes matches, he is selfish. And if he is selfish, he will throw his captain and fellow teammates in the largest fire he can find and save his own career. But he is not doing that. And he must have a damn strong reason for it. Which we dont know, btw. And if you sit down to think about the possible reasons for his constant denial, some pretty unpleasant ones come to mind quite fast.

So let's wait and see the story unfold before we throw him in the darkest dungeon we can find while delivering a sermon.

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by Danish407 my sentiments exactly! Its funny how they're 2 different types of support groups for Aamer. One group totally ignores the evidence and is adamant that the trio did absolutely nothing wrong. The 2nd group believes that the trio are guilty but Aamer was dragged into all of this with manipulation. Excuse me but an 18 yr old is more than capable of making wise decisions. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out the difference b/w right and wrong.....

I haven't heard the it was a coincidence story, if there is one post your evidence if there isn't than stop making s**t up. The evidence presented to the media is not enough to make them guilty. until its presented its time you start supporting your own people cause that support isn't gonna come from anywhere else

[FastBowler]

ICC has already shown their compromised interests which will make it impossible for the trio to get a fair hearing. Yet PPers ignore that and keep believing the ICC will be fair and impartial.
Also, to those who think the trio should get life bans, spot-fixing is a lesser cime than match-fixing. Did Lillee and Marsh get life-bans, did Warne and Waugh get life bans, did Gibbs get a life ban? Why should spot-fixing have a life ban if match-fixing doesn't?

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by FastBowler The actions of your British media not of Aamer himself. There isn't a shred of evidence against him that would stand up in a fair and impartial hearing.

he could easily go to the CAS if that's the case. that's what it's there for.

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by yahyah86 I seriously think this bloke is Indian. Why don't you give your personal opinions and make use of "I Think"

no one cares what you think. time to take off that blind fold

[JibranAnsari]

I dont think that the lawyers amir and salman butt have hired are smart enough , most of their statements speak of others being guilty not of the trio's innocence. Its like they are going to challenge the court that please give punishment to other guilty players as well. Now amir's lawyer talking of mitigating circumstances which really puts amir's innocence in doubt. For me yah ' innocent until proven guilty ' , but isnt it becoming really very very clear from the foolish statements from the lawyers that they are guilty (khudanakhwasta).

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth no one cares what you think. time to take off that blind fold

no one cares what you think either

"No, no, everybody cares because we the fans! The players owe us everything! We matter!"

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by FastBowler no one cares what you think either "No, no, everybody cares because we the fans! The players owe us everything! We matter!"

Thank you mate you beat me to it

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by FastBowler no one cares what you think either "No, no, everybody cares because we the fans! The players owe us everything! We matter!"

that's strange, i could have swore the same applied to you.

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth he could easily go to the CAS if that's the case. that's what it's there for.

except when these guys want to go 2 the world cup. Its only the dream of every aspiring cricketer in the world.

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by yahyah86 except when these guys want to go 2 the world cup. Its only the dream of every aspiring cricketer in the world.

do you honestly think that the ICC would have risked a law suit if they had no real evidence of foul play? if there was absolutely no evidence, would SCOTLAND YARD have spent the tax payers money to bring charges? please remember that not all the evidence has been disclosed to the media.

[kingusama92]

Originally Posted by atif.raza I really don't get how some of the regular and sensible posters here are talking along the lines of 'If he is not guilty then ....." Have you got no eyes? What evidence could there possibly exist that can be more convincing as the one that has been presented? Are you really buying "It was a co-incidence" story? How can anyone with an IQ of more than 50 believe for one second that those no balls were not pre-planned. Get real guys. All the evidence points against Amir and any sympathy that he could have received from the fans went down the drain when he decided to not come out clean.

You might be right.

However, many times things are not as they appear.

There have been many cases where someone was undoubtedly guilty until new evidence arrived proving them completely innocent. Its happened in the past and it can happen here.

Would I positively claim that Amir is an innocent person? The NOTW sting leads me to believe he's guilty as can be, but I am keeping my emotions in check until after the hearing.

Surely, we can give the trio that much?

[FastBowler]

Is that the best you've got, Down2Earth? Taxpayers money? You think government bodies wouldn't use taxpayers money for something that was false or unjust?

[Down2Earth]

time will tell. but then if they're banned, you'd say they got an unfair trial so either way, you're in denial. go to the CAS, simple as

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth do you honestly think that the ICC would have risked a law suit if they had no real evidence of foul play? if there was absolutely no evidence, would SCOTLAND YARD have spent the tax payers money to bring charges? please remember that not all the evidence has been disclosed to the media.

Exactly and the evidence brought to the media is not enough for you to say they are guilty. moreover they have not been charged stop making things up. furthermore the ICC knows that even if they go to the CAS and be proven not guilty it won't be in time to play in the world cup; and about the law suit they are controlling the pcb on there fingers even if they are proven not guilty by the CAS the pcb will use there selection chips against them. its really time you stop this negativity mongering. unless your not Pakistani of course.

[Sultan Yusuf]

One thing I haven't seen in this whole fiasco by the trio (esp Butt and Amir) is any honour. Whether they're guilty or innocent, your actions can be honourable - all they've done from the outset is play the victim. Slowly, slowly it seems they are proving themselves to be guilty and what's worse is that it is in the least bit honourable. It's as if they realise they have to come clean, but they're still trying to play the victim.

If you're innocent, send a legal notice to the accusers (don't talk about whether you "may issue" it, just do it), keep your mouth shut - don't come on every news channel and talk trash. When the hearing comes, present your case in the best way possible and deal with it.

If you are guilty, then the best thing to do is come clean, apologise to the nation and your fans. Show some damn remorse - if not for the people, at least for yourselves - I know it's a bit of a politically incorrect thing to say, but yes they may not be particularly remorseful, but even fake it if you must, a few tears go a long way. Showing some remorse will help in reducing your sentence and may further your career. The most honourable thing that could have been done is for Salman to come clean, take the blame and walk away from cricket....Cronje did it, but these guys think the whole world operates like pakistan - they think all they need to do get off is bribe a few people, talk trash, accuse someone and everyone of something or the other - sooner or later, everyone will forget everything and life will go on. Well sons, it doesn't quite work like that everywhere else.

I'd say these guys have not displayed any honour, or even any brains or some semblance of guile. They've each just acted like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Whilst that may be understandable given their situation, someone, somewhere should have given them some sound advice. All they've done is blame the world that there is a conspiracy against them.

To be fair, Asif has dealt with this a lot better than the other two - kept his mouth shut to a large extent. Amir is just young and naive - he is showing some honour (amongst thieves) in sticking by his buddy's side. But unfortunately that has not been reciprocated by the weasel that is Butt and definitely the type of honour that everyone wants to see.

[yahyah86]

I have a cousin who works in a bank in Canada and he tells me, anytime a Pakistani issues a loan that defaults the bank is all over them where if an Italian does the same they don't suspect them of anything. its this inferiority complex thats killing us and its why people like Zulfiqar Bhutto and Imran Khan and ofcourse Mohd. Ali Jinnah stand out. because they were not afraid and didn't have this complex. Please people we are just as good as anyone. I remember when England came to Pakistan after winning the ashes and lost the series against Pakistan everyone on my galli was talking about the matches being fixed. Lets get over this hump people PLEASE!!!

[JellyBro]

Originally Posted by Maula Jutt Though I agree with you in principle, I do not agree with the bolded part. It stinks of over self-righteousness which does not suit humans in general, let alone a group of people. Looks great in books though. What he did is wrong but - and dont take it as a personal attack, I am just giving a general view - people sitting in a country where doing the wrong thing is neither desirable most of the times nor practical have no idea of the kind of affect the environment or culture like one in in Pakistan can have on a person, regardless of his age. Yes what he did was wrong. We can keep repeating this like a broken record and it wont be unjustified. But words like, 'differentiating between wrong and right is not difficult' (which I keep hearing a lot on this forum) is just plain ignorant at best and hypocritical at worst. Most of us, including me, are convinced that he did the wrong thing by getting involved in spot fixing. But that fact by default makes him a very selfish person. If you cheat on your country, your fans, family and friends for your own personal gain, you are a very selfish person. Period. So what makes us think that he is devoted to his captain and a fellow teammate, so much so that he would risk his own career trying to save their backs? If he fixes matches, he is selfish. And if he is selfish, he will throw his captain and fellow teammates in the largest fire he can find and save his own career. But he is not doing that. And he must have a damn strong reason for it. Which we dont know, btw. And if you sit down to think about the possible reasons for his constant denial, some pretty unpleasant ones come to mind quite fast. So let's wait and see the story unfold before we throw him in the darkest dungeon we can find while delivering a sermon.

Ironically, most Pakistanis claim to have the moral high ground as compared to the rest of the world. This "holier than thou" mentality is the main reason why have ppl who are so adamant on believing that all of this (and whatever that has ever happed to Pakistan) is a big conspiracy to defame the "honest, hardworking muslims" If ppl as a whole aren't ready to admit their mistakes either collectively, or speaking out against wrongdoers and being firm on whats right and whats wrong then its no wonder that we still have the likes of Zardari as leaders. Regarding the second bold comment, nothing personal taken but just want to mention that i grew up in Pakistan myself so its not like i cant comprehend whats it like living their and making right and wrong choices. But you are right about the culture having a negative influence on the feeble mind. That, however, doesn't mean that we start blaming our "culture" for our personal shortcomings. That, frankly, is an easy way to avoid once moral responsibilities...

[NZPakistanFan]

"Amir's previously unblemished record"

He is only 18! It's not like he's been playing for 5 or 6 years!

[PerfectionPersonified]

i heard a Rumor on ABC grandstand cricket (Australia) during ashes yesterday about the trio,

someone from ICC , couldn't catch his name

so looks they have made up their mind already

Asif + Butt = Life Ban
Amir = 5 year
(Just because he is not old enough and cant be treated like the other two)

So stay tuned for the verdict

[90MPH]

Originally Posted by FastBowler He doesn't care about your sympathy, he's not aware of your existence, you're a nobody in his life, nothing you do will affect him cuz you're a nobody in his life, you have no importance for him. Get it?

I am a fan of his bowling or was until he got into this mess.
If I am a nobody what the Hell does that make you? Maybe a low-life nobody who wants to defend cheats at all costs. No wonder Pakistan cricket is riddled with controversies and cheating when you have the fans like yourself ready to defend cheats and attack those that want the cheats to face justice.

[90MPH]

Originally Posted by atif.raza I really don't get how some of the regular and sensible posters here are talking along the lines of 'If he is not guilty then ....." Have you got no eyes? What evidence could there possibly exist that can be more convincing as the one that has been presented? Are you really buying "It was a co-incidence" story? How can anyone with an IQ of more than 50 believe for one second that those no balls were not pre-planned. Get real guys. All the evidence points against Amir and any sympathy that he could have received from the fans went down the drain when he decided to not come out clean.

Exactly my thoughts, well said.

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by 90MPH I am a fan of his bowling or was until he got into this mess. If I am a nobody what the Hell does that make you? Maybe a low-life nobody who wants to defend cheats at all costs. No wonder Pakistan cricket is riddled with controversies and cheating when you have the fans like yourself ready to defend cheats and attack those that want the cheats to face justice.

Mr. 90mph, i think the least we can do is wait until the dust has settled before we call them cheats. what do you think?

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by 90MPH I am a fan of his bowling or was until he got into this mess. If I am a nobody what the Hell does that make you? Maybe a low-life nobody who wants to defend cheats at all costs. No wonder Pakistan cricket is riddled with controversies and cheating when you have the fans like yourself ready to defend cheats and attack those that want the cheats to face justice.

Yeah and of course you think you're above him, adopting this ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude to judge him and already consider him a cheat without any evidence. You're ignorant of the first tenet of justice in most democratic countries: innocent until proven guilty. That may be hard for you to comprehend and on your gut may be much easier but most of the world prefers to think. They don't like to sell everyone down the river the moment they are accused of something. Not everyone is a fairweather friend who'll be all smiles when the going's good but kick you the moment you're down.

[FastBowler]

Originally Posted by yahyah86 Mr. 90mph, i think the least we can do is wait until the dust has settled before we call them cheats. what do you think?

Mr 90MPH has led a blameless life devoid of all wrongdoing and he's all-seeing and all-knowing so I think we should take his word that they're guilty. After all, it'll give him a sensation won't it?

[ddss]

sucks for him, shouldnt have done it

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by FastBowler Mr 90MPH has led a blameless life devoid of all wrongdoing and he's all-seeing and all-knowing so I think we should take his word that they're guilty. After all, it'll give him a sensation won't it?

i was just trying to be nice perhaps convince him and add him to the innocent till proven guilty ship but if thats the case, i guess nothing will work

[90MPH]

Originally Posted by FastBowler Mr 90MPH has led a blameless life devoid of all wrongdoing and he's all-seeing and all-knowing so I think we should take his word that they're guilty. After all, it'll give him a sensation won't it?

This case will be heard by the ICC who do not need the hard evidence required by a conventional court to find someone guilty of an offence. The NOTW evidence is damning in my opinion so I would rather him come clean not just so he can get a lighter sentence but also that he can name and shame all those that dragged him into this mess which will only benefit Pakistan cricket in the long term to get rid of corruption.
I have made many mistakes in my life - one being I too like you would be ready to defend my Heros like Asif and Akthur when they had thier drug offences overturned at a PCB kangaroo tribunal - I was ecstatic that my players got off Scott free. It only hit home later to me when Asif got caught again in another drugs saga that I was part of the problem - that we as fans along with an inept board were to defend all the players misdemeanors no matter what.
I don't know how long you have been following Pakisan but I have been for 18 years and will continue to do so in the future. But I am sick tired of the controversies that always follow Pakisan.

[yahyah86]

Originally Posted by 90MPH This case will be heard by the ICC who do not need the hard evidence required by a conventional court to find someone guilty of an offence. The NOTW evidence is damning in my opinion so I would rather him come clean not just so he can get a lighter sentence but also that he can name and shame all those that dragged him into this mess which will only benefit Pakistan cricket in the long term to get rid of corruption. I have made many mistakes in my life - one being I too like you would be ready to defend my Heros like Asif and Akthur when they had thier drug offences overturned at a PCB kangaroo tribunal - I was ecstatic that my players got off Scott free. It only hit home later to me when Asif got caught again in another drugs saga that I was part of the problem - that we as fans along with an inept board were to defend all the players misdemeanors no matter what. I don't know how long you have been following Pakisan but I have been for 18 years and will continue to do so in the future. But I am sick tired of the controversies that always follow Pakisan.

well after reading all of this i first would like to ask for my 30 seconds back. secondly, the video provided by notw doesn't have a date on in. so its not damning enough. do you think the CAS would ever accept that as evidence. never, so what i would suggest is keep quite until evidence has been brought out that would definitively prove their guilt. and they haven't been proven yet so please don't call them cheats. some of us are still fans and are waiting for the outcome of the icc and the CAS eventually. and someone please explain what cheat means cause i always thought it was someone who did drugs to give them an advantage or a stick that was not allowed or took a short cut in a marathon, or had cheat notes in an exam.

[NZPakistanFan]

Originally Posted by PerfectionPersonified i heard a Rumor on ABC grandstand cricket (Australia) during ashes yesterday about the trio, someone from ICC , couldn't catch his name so looks they have made up their mind already Asif + Butt = Life Ban Amir = 5 year (Just because he is not old enough and cant be treated like the other two) So stay tuned for the verdict

I know this is just a rumour, but that sounds pretty close to the mark for me. Butt and Asif are getting life bans, without a doubt. The only point of contention will be whether Amir gets similar treatment or something lesser. I'd be happy with five years - strong enough that it will deter future players but also allows him to come back into the game at 23, still pretty young.