Is the Game of Cricket Flawed?

[deltav]

I have always been tempted to ask this question for a long time. Today i feel is the right opportunity to ask this question. The other day england could not defend 300 runs against a mediocre batting side. we were all cursing how their bowling is worse than india. Today they defended 170 runs against a better batting side. Many would say South africa choked. However I feel its neither. This is purely a game where the conditions dictate what kind of a player you are. One day you are mediocre and the other day brilliant.

This game of cricklet I think has majorly seen most of the players as ordinary. that is they can shine when the conditions suit them. Goes true for batters and bowlers.
There are only a few greats of the game who shiine during advers circumstances.
I have a feeling that this game is flawed. Do you guys agree?

I am editing my post again.
I said that the game is flawed because it depends so much on the conditions and the conditions can change through the course of the game. therefore making the Toss such a vital factor which is just spin of a coin and hence pure luck. Especially in test match. There is moisture in the morning, and if the sun comes out the pitch becomes good for batting. It all is about timing. When a certain thing is done isnt it. That is when you bat and when you bowl. The conditions dictate the result between two almost equal teams. Of course minnows wont prevail inspite of conditions in most of the cases and there are a few extra ordinary players who play well inspite of the conditions.
Also the great teams are the one that can adapt to different conditions but I think in today's world there isnt any great team.

[Schickelgruber]

I don't understand you post to be honest. How can conditions alone predict the outcome of a match? More than anything I think your thinking is flawed.

[TNA]

You think Shoaib Akhter is ordinary?

[Prince_Pathan]

thats true...adds to the unpredictability of this sport...making it that exciting

there are exceptions though

some players just perform regardless of conditions

[Express Pace]

Conditions are a part of the game, that's why it's played outdoors.

[Schickelgruber]

How can a game be flawed if you are calling most cricketers ordinary? What the hell

[Robert]

Originally Posted by deltav This is purely a game where the conditions dictate what kind of a player you are. One day you are mediocre and the other day brilliant. There are only a few greats of the game who shiine during advers circumstances. Therfore this game is flawed as most of the players are ordinary. I have a feeling that this game is flawed. Do you guys agree?

No, because as you say - the top players rise to perform in all conditions. Amond the non-greats, you can select players who can take advantage of certain conditions. And they can work to improve their skills and mental approach in the more difficult conditions and situations.

[jusarrived]

one of the worst threads ever ?

[Badsha]

The game can not be flawed.


Whatever is part of the game... is the game. How can it be flawed? Do you get my point?

[Poison]

It's called competitive sport dude.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by Robert No, because as you say - the top players rise to perform in all conditions. Amond the non-greats, you can select players who can take advantage of certain conditions. And they can work to improve their skills and mental approach in the more difficult conditions and situations.

Yes agreed. Thats why I said there are a few greats of the game that play well irrespective of the situation but not always mind you.

Also what wud you say abt the ENG vs SA game compared to the ENG vs Ireland. The same bowlers were called crap and what wud you call those bowlers today.

[Schickelgruber]

Originally Posted by jusarrived one of the worst threads ever ?

Totally

[TNA]

questioning whether most of the players are ordinary or if the sport is flawed is entirely two different questions.

Your notion is flawed.

[Schickelgruber]

Originally Posted by deltav Yes agreed. Thats why I said there are a few greats of the game that play well irrespective of the situation but not always mind you. Also what wud you say abt the ENG vs SA game compared to the ENG vs Ireland. The same bowlers were called crap and what wud you call those bowlers today.

Dude every game is a new game. You won't always play the same as you did in the previous game what's so hard to understand?

[amarali]

I am 50/50 regarding this......great players avail good conditions and adjust themselves in adverse conditons.....while mediocres perform only when there is their day....hope u got what i meant.

[Awesome_Username]

Not at all. It adds value to the game. It's a well defined part of the game. How can it possibly be a flaw?

On a related note, I was wondering something the other day. Does anyone know of any other sport where natural conditions (pitch, atmosphere etc.) play such a large part in the game, and often affect the outcomes of the game?

[deltav]

OK may be i should not say the Game is flawed. But something doesnt seem right as it makes us form two different opnions abt the same players.

[Express Pace]

What a strange thread, it doesn't make any sense. They aren't robots, they aren't going to play the same way every game, this is true for all sports, not only cricket.

[Schickelgruber]

Originally Posted by deltav OK may be i should not say the Game is flawed. But something doesnt seem right as it makes us form two different opnions abt the same players.

[deltav]

I have to agree with you all here but somehow unable to express what I really wanted to say.
Perhaps i shud ask what wud you call the English bowlers after the match against Ireland and the match against SA today?

[TNA]

Originally Posted by Awesome_Username Not at all. It adds value to the game. It's a well defined part of the game. How can it possibly be a flaw? On a related note, I was wondering something the other day. Does anyone know of any other sport where natural conditions (pitch, atmosphere etc.) play such a large part in the game, and often affect the outcomes of the game?

The dynamics of cricket is so varied i dont think a sport exists where natural conditions plays such a huge part.

[NO 1 AFRIDI FAN]

The conditions are part of the game man. Thats what makes it competitive and exciting and also unpredictable.

[Schickelgruber]

Originally Posted by deltav I have to agree with you all here but somehow unable to express what I really wanted to say. Perhaps i shud ask what wud you call the English bowlers after the match against Ireland and the match against SA today?

Rubbish against ireland but bowled well today. What's your point man?

[Express Pace]

It's not only cricket though is it, Liverpool lost to West Ham 3-1 in the Premiership last week, and this week they beat Manchester United 3-1, Man Utd are 1st in the league and West Ham 17th.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by Schickelgruber Rubbish against ireland but bowled well today. What's your point man?

SO it means they could not defend 300 that day and defended 170 today. The same bowlers.
I wud say neither were they rubbis the other day and neither brilliant today. Its the conditions that make them what they are.
Give a bowler friendly condition to bowlers they do well (same to batters). and vice versa.
There are however a few exceptional players who do well irrespectiev of the conditions. But majority of them fall under the first category.

[ElRaja]

is this not the entire premise of team sports?

[Awesome_Username]

Originally Posted by deltav I have to agree with you all here but somehow unable to express what I really wanted to say. Perhaps i shud ask what wud you call the English bowlers after the match against Ireland and the match against SA today?

That is the way in any sport. If everyone played the same exact way each time, then there would hardly be any point to watching the sport.

I do sort of get what you're saying, I think. Part of what you're saying is that our opinions of teams are dictated by the results they produce, and the results are too often themselves dictated by the conditions rather than the teams' abilities. Right?

[in_cutter]

OP yaar your thinking is flawed.

Tottenham beat AC Milan..then were thrashed by Blackpool the following week- does that mean the game of football is flawed? NO

[Schickelgruber]

Originally Posted by deltav SO it means they could not defend 300 that day and defended 170 today. The same bowlers. I wud say neither were they rubbis the other day and neither brilliant today. Its the conditions that make them what they are. Give a bowler friendly condition to bowlers they do well (same to batters). and vice versa. There are however a few exceptional players who do well irrespectiev of the conditions. But majority of them fall under the first category.

Of course the conditions affect results and of course some players adapt to different conditions better than others but how on Earth does this mean the game is flawed?

It's an outdoor sport, the Earth controls weather, Man did not decide to make a rule that the ball will swing when it is cloudy nor did man make the rule that when the pitch is flat it will be hard to bowl.

It's how the game works and that's that. Player play differently from one another and there is nothing more to it.

[Awesome_Username]

Originally Posted by deltav SO it means they could not defend 300 that day and defended 170 today. The same bowlers. I wud say neither were they rubbis the other day and neither brilliant today. Its the conditions that make them what they are. Give a bowler friendly condition to bowlers they do well (same to batters). and vice versa. There are however a few exceptional players who do well irrespectiev of the conditions. But majority of them fall under the first category.

That is why they are exceptional. 'Good' and 'Great' are relative terms in the context of sport. If more players start playing better in all conditions, we will just shift our standards for judging the good and great players. And the same 'problem' will remain.

[Karachi_King]

my friend! when u are talking about an outdoor team game, u must consider the environment will play some part in every match. its a team game where needs perform, not an individual. if any player/team is unable to cope the conditions & compete, then they need to raise themselves to be competitive, instead of calling it a flaw.

[Abdullah22]

Let me make it easy for you.
Let us look at another sport, how about Football?

Do you remember the Football WC game of Switzerland vs Spain? Switzerland manage to beat Spain with 1:0 however they couldn't win a single game after that, even against the weaker sides. Spain however went on to lift the cup.
What does this mean that the Game of Football is Flawed??

The moral of the story is that we are all human beings and you can't expect the same output every time.

[deltav]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Yes I do get what most of you said. I was wrong when I said the game was flawed. The game isnt flawed. But the way it affects the judgement of the viewers is what I was trying to bring. A 100 by a batsman may not be a great innings when the conditions suit him. Same goes for a bowler who takes a 5fer. That way the statistics that we see is so misleading. It tells you a batsman's average and bowler's avg but doesnt tell in what circumstances were they taken. I mean its not a perfect world isnt it.

[Express Pace]

Originally Posted by deltav Thank you everyone for your replies. Yes I do get what most of you said. I was wrong when I said the game was flawed. The game isnt flawed. But the way it affects the judgement of the viewers is what I was trying to bring. A 100 by a batsman may not be a great innings when the conditions suit him. Same goes for a bowler who takes a 5fer. That way the statistics that we see is so misleading. It tells you a batsman's average and bowler's avg but doesnt tell in what circumstances were they taken. I mean its not a perfect world isnt it.

I guess it all evens out after time doesn't it? the batsmen/bowlers average is that of all conditions combined.

[iZeeshan]

I'll answer your question, with another couple of questions:

How can Kobe Bryant score 43 points one day, and only score 17 in the next?
How can Peyton Manning throw for 5 touchdowns in one game, and one in the next?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by deltav Also what wud you say abt the ENG vs SA game compared to the ENG vs Ireland. The same bowlers were called crap and what wud you call those bowlers today.

I didn't call the England bowlers crap - I have pointed out again and again that Draco, Swann and Jimmy are world top ten bowlers, but through a combination of injuries, sickness, mental fatigue and dropped catches they have looked ordinary.

England do have a strange habit of playing badly against weak teams and well against good ones. And we have been SA's bogey team ever since they came back from isolation.

[pakistan_pride1]

it's all luck

[Watsupdoc]

Different conditions, different players, different teams and different performances make this game enjoyable.

These condition factors is what make this game really interesting and not "flawed".

[JustAnotherFan]

At the end of the day both teams play under the same conditions I.e. You can't judge a game at the lunch break, when the other time still needs to bat etc. A few of my facebook friends were saying SA were busy thrashing England, but England still had to bowl etc. There are some different conditions in a game (day/night) or local conditions. But is part of the game.

I think tho winning the toss should not decide the outcome of the game tho with conditions. Then the game is flawed.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by Awesome_Username That is the way in any sport. If everyone played the same exact way each time, then there would hardly be any point to watching the sport. I do sort of get what you're saying, I think. Part of what you're saying is that our opinions of teams are dictated by the results they produce, and the results are too often themselves dictated by the conditions rather than the teams' abilities. Right?

Exactly. And what makes it worst is the conditions changing through the course of the game therefore making the Toss such a vital factor which is just spin of a coin and hence pure luck. Especially in test match. There is moisture in the morning, and if the sun comes out the picth becomes good for batting. It all is about timinng. When a certain thing is done isnt it. That is when you bat and when you bowl. The conditions dictate the result between two almost equal teams. Of course minnows wont prevail inspite of conditions in most of the cases.

[JilaWatan]

dude the whole point of being a great cricket player is adjust to your conditions and play accordingly. if every pitch and every outfield in the world is the same then the results would be far more predictable. also i would say if everything was kept uniform then the only thing not uniform would be a player's own form. we can see that in sports like baseball and basketball. the courts are the same yet sometimes you have low scoring or high scoring games. that proves that the score is Dependant on the basketball players' ability or form that day.

having different external conditions that have a direct impact on the game put a whole new dimension to the game of cricket. cricket might have flaws but conditions is not a flaw but another element taken into account. this is what makes cricket unpredictable and in turn an amazing sport to play and watch

[ZenBowman]

Without varying conditions cricket would be boring. Conditions make it so different types of players have different advantages under different situations. It's like a giant game of chess combined with being a sport.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by JilaWatan dude the whole point of being a great cricket player is adjust to your conditions and play accordingly. if every pitch and every outfield in the world is the same then the results would be far more predictable. also i would say if everything was kept uniform then the only thing not uniform would be a player's own form. we can see that in sports like baseball and basketball. the courts are the same yet sometimes you have low scoring or high scoring games. that proves that the score is Dependant on the basketball players' ability or form that day. having different external conditions that have a direct impact on the game put a whole new dimension to the game of cricket. cricket might have flaws but conditions is not a flaw but another element taken into account. this is what makes cricket unpredictable and in turn an amazing sport to play and watch

There are 2 ways to look at it. You call it fascinating. I call it flawed.
Purely when in the same week you see two games played by the same team. unable to defend 300 against a not so good batting line up and defending 170 agsinst a decent batting line up. There was neither a need to curse the english bowlers the other day nor the need to praise them today. Its all abt conditions at this level. Pitch 2 equal teams against each other and the team that has the conditions favourable when it batted or when it bowled wud win. Its all abt timing.
For some of you this cud be fascinating. It was for me too. Off late I am starting to get these doubts.

[JilaWatan]

Originally Posted by deltav There are 2 ways to look at it. You call it fascinating. I call it flawed. Purely when in the same week you see two games played by the same team. unable to defend 300 against a not so good batting line up and defending 170 agsinst a decent batting line up. There was neither a need to curse the english bowlers the other day nor the need to praise them today. Its all abt conditions at this level. Pitch 2 equal teams against each other and the team that has the conditions favourable when it batted or when it bowled wud win. Its all abt timing. For some of you this cud be fascinating. It was for me too. Off late I am starting to get these doubts.

so ur identifying these so-called flaws...how do u plan to rectify them, if given a chance?

[samplepiece]

Game of cricket and flawed? That amounts to blasphemy on this forum!

[Black Zero]

all games are flawed...even chess...toss plays a role...

only WI and Aus teams were good enough to win against odds...

[deltav]

Originally Posted by JilaWatan so ur identifying these so-called flaws...how do u plan to rectify them, if given a chance?

I dont know really.
Maybe in test match it evens out becos there are 5 days unless your luck is pretty bad that you had to deal with the worst of the condition for either bat or bowl everytime you went out which I doubt.
In 20-20 it doesnt matter as the conditions wont change that much.

However the biggest affected is ODIs I feel. Toss plays a crucial role. That 6fer that Nehra took in WC 2003 against England at Durban is one such eg where it tells you how the judgment of this game can be so misleading.
Perhaps the split innigs might help. Might Not. I dont know really.

[anand99]

I dislike the role the toss plays in the sport based on the pitch condition in ODIs. I think curators should make a great effort that the track plays the same for the entire 100 overs. Beyond that there is little control you have over weather conditions and that should certainly be part of the game. But the pitch should play the same for both teams such that winning the toss doesn't decide the game. I am specifically only talking about ODIs here.

[Express Pace]

They do split innings in Australia which is a good idea to combat the coin toss.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by deltav I have always been tempted to ask this question for a long time. Today i feel is the right opportunity to ask this question. The other day england could not defend 300 runs against a mediocre batting side. we were all cursing how their bowling is worse than india. Today they defended 170 runs against a better batting side. Many would say South africa choked. However I feel its neither. This is purely a game where the conditions dictate what kind of a player you are. One day you are mediocre and the other day brilliant. This game of cricklet I think has majorly seen most of the players as ordinary. that is they can shine when the conditions suit them. Goes true for batters and bowlers. There are only a few greats of the game who shiine during advers circumstances. I have a feeling that this game is flawed. Do you guys agree? I am editing my post again. I said that the game is flawed because it depends so much on the conditions and the conditions can change through the course of the game. therefore making the Toss such a vital factor which is just spin of a coin and hence pure luck. Especially in test match. There is moisture in the morning, and if the sun comes out the pitch becomes good for batting. It all is about timing. When a certain thing is done isnt it. That is when you bat and when you bowl. The conditions dictate the result between two almost equal teams. Of course minnows wont prevail inspite of conditions in most of the cases and there are a few extra ordinary players who play well inspite of the conditions. Also the great teams are the one that can adapt to different conditions but I think in today's world there isnt any great team.

A very good OP, and a very interesting topic.

The way you have described, yes it can be described as flawed.

Most other team sports are based in conditions and situations that remain uniform for both teams involved.

Cricket is markedly different in that regard, the conditions can change rapidly in a matter of hours. A belter of a track in SA or England in the morning can become a quick bowler's paradise at night.

That is the 'flaw', as well as the beauty and inherent uniqueness of the game of cricket.

[LethalSami]

simple answer .....NO

As :miandad once said "Clicket by chance and Hockey by chalaki"....

so, lots of variables and aslo luck involved in cricket .........which makes it even more interesting...

but mostly......the team that plays better cricket on a given day....WINs........

so all izz well

[Awesome_Username]

OP, man, you originally made such a hash of what is essentially such a simple and oft-debated question i.e. Do conditions play too much of a role in cricket and our perception of it?

I think most will agree with you that while conditions should definitely play a part in the game, the best case scenario is that they stay relatively uniform for both teams.

[kingusama92]

This is the way competitive sports work.

What is the point of playing a sport if one team is always going to win? The idea of upsets and different results is what makes the entire premise of sports so special. Both sets of players go into a match assuming they have some sort of chance of winning it. There could be varying degrees in their belief based on the opposition's strength, but there is this hope within their mindset.

This is what we all love about sports. This is NOT a flaw and never will be.

The conditions do change, but that is also a part of sport. Sure, there are times where the pitches are so heavily reliant on the toss that its ridiculous. However, you cannot openly claim that the sport is entirely based on what occurs at the toss each and every single time. This is untrue and a generalized comment at best.

[lipton]

Pitch and Condition play big role in Cricket.

[*sallu*]

No, its perfect

[AZ]

Originally Posted by kingusama92 This is the way competitive sports work. What is the point of playing a sport if one team is always going to win? The idea of upsets and different results is what makes the entire premise of sports so special. Both sets of players go into a match assuming they have some sort of chance of winning it. There could be varying degrees in their belief based on the opposition's strength, but there is this hope within their mindset. This is what we all love about sports. This is NOT a flaw and never will be. The conditions do change, but that is also a part of sport. Sure, there are times where the pitches are so heavily reliant on the toss that its ridiculous. However, you cannot openly claim that the sport is entirely based on what occurs at the toss each and every single time. This is untrue and a generalized comment at best.

how does it work in other team sports like football or rugby?

they offer the fairest possible set of conditions for both teams.

and more often that not these days, the toss is playing too big a part in deciding the winner of the contest.

[anand99]

Originally Posted by Express Pace They do split innings in Australia which is a good idea to combat the coin toss.

I am guessing they took that from baseball where the teams switch for nine innings.

[AZ]

^much closer to home actually...Test cricket!