The best captain we never had

[Saqs]

In Australia, this is usually said about Warne (and sometimes Gilchrist).

In England, I have heard Trescothick's name been thrown up there as the genius behind Vaughan's success (any truth to this?).

A difficult question to answer when it concerns Pakistan, considering every man and his parrot has captained our team over the years, to some extent.

But let's rephrase this a little and focus on those who either never got the chance to captain, or got a very limited chance to do so.

I think our best captains over the years have been bowlers. Attacking bowlers.

This may sound strange to some, but I was always of the opinion that Shoaib should have got a chance to lead, considering so many others had already tried and failed somewhat. It may have stopped him from his wayward ways during the mid-2000's perhaps?

I have no idea how or if he has marshalled his troops in the domestic scene?

Thoughts?

To supporters of other nations, feel free to add your own (which is why I've left the title of the thread a little open-ended and inclusive).

[zaid65]

A person who could not maintained disciplined in his own personal life, was involved in all sort of controversies, never took his game seriously, you think he could have been be a good captain?

[BoiWonder]

Originally Posted by zaid65 A person who could not maintained disciplined in his own personal life, was involved in all sort of controversies, never took his game seriously, you think he could have been be a good captain?

we appointed afridi as captain. it's not as if he was free of controversies. i think akhtar would have made a good captain too

[Fireworks11]

Akhtar would have loved the limelight of being captain, you can imagine his patriotic press conferences. It would have been a great phase however he probably wouldn't have lasted too long though.

Still, sad to see him retire without captaining at least once.

[asian123]

Originally Posted by zaid65 A person who could not maintained disciplined in his own personal life, was involved in all sort of controversies, never took his game seriously, you think he could have been be a good captain?

He always put full effort in his bowling and no one can imagine how difficult it was for him to continue bowling like that.

Please Zaid65 get a life and stop hating everything

[Kray_jackson7]

I agree, It would have to be akhtar. Though i was happy shahid was captain i wanted to see akhtar captain atleast one match. It is said the honour of captaining your country is huge and i feel someone like akhtar deserved it.

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by zaid65 A person who could not maintained disciplined in his own personal life, was involved in all sort of controversies, never took his game seriously, you think he could have been be a good captain?

1. Controversies
Lol have you not seen the resume of our illustrious former captains?

Akram, Malik, Waqar, Sohail, Miandad, Malik, Misbah, Afridi - they have all been part of controversies.

Taking the game seriously
And as far as him taking his game seriously, I think 99% of the PPers would be in agreement with me when I say that sincerity and effort for the team was one of the hallmarks of Shoaib's career. Never once could I point out one of his performances and say he wasn't giving it his all.

Discipline in his personal life
I'm sorry I wasn't aware you were the headmaster of how to live your personal life? Such a cliched argument against Shoaib. Warne had problems, he still does. For either one of them it didn't once affect their performances.

[freelance_cricketer]

Don't think this thing is applicable to Pakistan , hard to remember a decent player who has not captained Pakistan at least once

[SAF]

Shoaib Akhtar with a doubt.

There. I have joined the 4,000+ posts club folks.

[Poison]

Tree-beard-man would've been enterprising.

[Assadrulz]

i think razzaq captained pakistan in one game..

[Justcrazy]

I think Miandad never got opportunity for a longer period of time....... He was pretty exciting as a captain and always looked to win. A street smart captain.

Moin Khan was also a decent captain.

[Amir]

Younus Khan. Yes, he was captain but not for a long period. If he was given initial backing by the board when all this political stuff started, we would be in a better place right now. However, he has never been the same since, they screwed him over.

[kabirg]

Razzi bhai he might have been the captain for couple of games but he was and is a great cricketer would have loved to see him as a captain.

Akthar would've been a great choice always gave it all he had and he was aggressive as well but injuries were going to be the problem in the long run!

[osee_bhai]

Saqlain? Why not.

[akamaka]

Damaad

[Cricketismylife]

lol @ Damaad

Shoaib would have made a great captain but in the 80s.

he would hav been more a case of dictatorship styled captain which was common in those times. The captain used to be the daddy (some bullying thrown in for good measure! lol) of the rest of the team.

Border, Imran, Botham etc


lot of senior/junior thing which shoaib would hav loved as well.

A bit of kutt-maar with the juniors would be norm- e.g. someone throws their wicket would get an instant slap from the other end by the captain.

or maybe a bit of cricket bat love once they get back into the pavilion.

The Team morale would have been real "high" (pun intended) with the after parties (IPL style parties with Bolly/Lolly stars!). and his gf wud hav a little fight over the little ciggie they rolled...

Learning english and being "kewl" would be the top requirements to be part of Pak squad. No FOBs for Pak dressing room plz!

Banning of pak cuisine from the dressing room. Can just imagine having a go at the steak and salad for a heavy dinner!

poor razzaq having to smuggle his saag - ghosht!

[MMHS]

To me it's Saqlain. He had a very good cricket brain, probably was least controversial among contemporary Pak greats & was acceptable to most of the players (May be he came from outside the top two cities & was a bit modest in attitude). I 'll never question his commitment & motivation & most importantly, that man hated loosing. He played with a fitting spirit & often would created an unexpected resistance. Had he played to his full potential & career length, he probably would have finished as a bowling all-rounder. An extremely fit player to start with & a good fielder, who would have been an automatic choice for all three formats.

Sohaib had the commitment, without doubt & I 'll not question his seriousness ever, for the pain he took to bowl fast; he was an honest trier & a great competitor. But, you need captains to be fit & a bit diplomatic. As a person Sohaib was like his bowling, free flowing, raw, uncontrolled & natural. These type of players don't become good captains as they are a bit moody & often gets upset or turned off. Their heart leads the head & are often politically incorrect.

I think, for similar reasons Denis Lille or Sir Richard Hadlee was never even chosen as VCP. These are a type of erratic & aloof individuals, who find themselves in trouble or create trouble, unless are in comfort zone or handled properly. Ian Chappel could handle DK, who was ready to die for him, but may be not the same case was with Kim Huges; but no one would ever dare to question DK's loyalty or commitment. On contrary, I thought, had Sohaib been playing under someone like Imran, he would have been much better player, but never would have been good Captain.

[MMHS]

To me it's Saqlain. He had a very good cricket brain, probably was least controversial among contemporary Pak greats & was acceptable to most of the players (May be he came from outside the top two cities & was a bit modest in attitude). I 'll never question his commitment & motivation & most importantly, that man hated loosing. He played with a fighting spirit & often would created an unexpected resistance. Had he played to his full potential & career length, he probably would have finished as a bowling all-rounder. An extremely fit player to start with & a good fielder, who would have been an automatic choice for all three formats.

Sohaib had the commitment, without doubt & I 'll not question his seriousness ever, for the pain he took to bowl fast; he was an honest trier & a great competitor. But, you need captains to be fit & a bit diplomatic. As a person Sohaib was like his bowling, free flowing, raw, uncontrolled & natural. These type of players don't become good captains as they are a bit moody & often gets upset or turned off. Their heart leads the head & are often politically incorrect & they hardy be good communicators. Had Sohaib been Captain, he might have ignored or avoided few individuals he felt uncomfortable with, rather than sorting it out. Sohaib tried to solve problems his own way often, not necessarily the appropriate way, he he was never bad in heart.

I think, for similar reasons Denis Lille or Sir Richard Hadlee was never even chosen as VCP. These are a type of erratic & aloof individuals, who find themselves in trouble or create trouble, unless are in comfort zone or handled properly. Ian Chappel could handle DK, who was ready to die for him, but may be not the same case was with Kim Huges; but no one would ever dare to question DK's loyalty or commitment. On contrary, I thought, had Sohaib been playing under someone like Imran, he would have been much better player, but never would have been good Captain.

[sa]

Originally Posted by Saqib Salman In Australia, this is usually said about Warne (and sometimes Gilchrist). In England, I have heard Trescothick's name been thrown up there as the genius behind Vaughan's success (any truth to this?). A difficult question to answer when it concerns Pakistan, considering every man and his parrot has captained our team over the years, to some extent. But let's rephrase this a little and focus on those who either never got the chance to captain, or got a very limited chance to do so. I think our best captains over the years have been bowlers. Attacking bowlers. This may sound strange to some, but I was always of the opinion that Shoaib should have got a chance to lead, considering so many others had already tried and failed somewhat. It may have stopped him from his wayward ways during the mid-2000's perhaps? I have no idea how or if he has marshalled his troops in the domestic scene? Thoughts? To supporters of other nations, feel free to add your own (which is why I've left the title of the thread a little open-ended and inclusive).

only if he would've played one series without getting injured then I can see give a shot at captaincy but the way he ruined his career, I dont think so.

[Ashraful_Rox]

I would love to hear his interviews

[Pakhtoon_Rules]

Azhar Mehmood, he was on the brink in 2000, but instead suggested waqar saab.

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by Amir Younus Khan. Yes, he was captain but not for a long period. If he was given initial backing by the board when all this political stuff started, we would be in a better place right now. However, he has never been the same since, they screwed him over.

I was about to also post this.

For his achievements and potential to achieve more, he was robbed and we have been all the poorer for it.

Tree-Beard would have been enterprising and interesting, or he could have just chosen to turn up to games in Sleep Mode lol. The possibilities are endless.

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by MMHS To me it's Saqlain. He had a very good cricket brain, probably was least controversial among contemporary Pak greats & was acceptable to most of the players (May be he came from outside the top two cities & was a bit modest in attitude). I 'll never question his commitment & motivation & most importantly, that man hated loosing. He played with a fitting spirit & often would created an unexpected resistance. Had he played to his full potential & career length, he probably would have finished as a bowling all-rounder. An extremely fit player to start with & a good fielder, who would have been an automatic choice for all three formats. Sohaib had the commitment, without doubt & I 'll not question his seriousness ever, for the pain he took to bowl fast; he was an honest trier & a great competitor. But, you need captains to be fit & a bit diplomatic. As a person Sohaib was like his bowling, free flowing, raw, uncontrolled & natural. These type of players don't become good captains as they are a bit moody & often gets upset or turned off. Their heart leads the head & are often politically incorrect. I think, for similar reasons Denis Lille or Sir Richard Hadlee was never even chosen as VCP. These are a type of erratic & aloof individuals, who find themselves in trouble or create trouble, unless are in comfort zone or handled properly. Ian Chappel could handle DK, who was ready to die for him, but may be not the same case was with Kim Huges; but no one would ever dare to question DK's loyalty or commitment. On contrary, I thought, had Sohaib been playing under someone like Imran, he would have been much better player, but never would have been good Captain.

Good post. Decent comparisons made with Lillee I guess.

Saqlain would have been interesting, but in that side of star power, he may have been overwhelmed.

[saeed-sohail]

Aamir sohail. Was vice captain for a long time always impressed when he deputised for akram and latif. Won singer tri series in 96 and was the first Pakistani to lead his team to a test win in SA. When appointed full time captain match fixing mafia got better of him and he did not last long.

[AZ]

A Test win vs Australia after 15 years.
A Test win vs England in England after a decade.

[Pakhtoon_Rules]

Originally Posted by AZ A Test win vs Australia after 15 years. A Test win vs England in England after a decade.

There was nothing special in butt captaincy.
Aamir and Asif were in top form in tat series.

[emclub]

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by AZ A Test win vs Australia after 15 years. A Test win vs England in England after a decade.

Had we never had this one, we may still have had Amir and Asif.

[Cover Drive]

Shoaib Akhtar

[Blitz]

Been calling for Akhtar as captain since 2007. I think he was the perfect choice.

But meh, the story of his life. Had the potential to be the greatest bowler ever. All his own fault, he didn't achieve anything he really wanted.

[Saqs]

Surprised to see so much Akhtar support. Thought I was just being my deranged self when thinking that up. Nice to see other deranged mules on here.

[strongman123]

I can understand why Akhtar is a popular choice. But he would not have been a successful captain, especially post 2007. Its because of his fitness, he could hardly bowl a proper spell, so I dont know how he would have captained on the field, while catching his breath. No doubt he would be a good motivator, and encourage other players to give their best, but not a good choice for a captain on the field.

[alberto]

i think our greatest captain never to be was majid khan who was very flamboyant and on of our stars in the 80s

[Rana]

Had Akhtar been made captain in 2003, he would have certainly played many more games. He would make it his duty to remain fit.

Sadly, his behaviour, arrogance and antics of the feild didnt ever make him elegible for the job.

[iZaman]

All the wicket keeper captains have been successful in the past 5 years.

KAMRAN AKMAL!

I could feel the Cricket mind always when he screamed "Ghoomay gee". We still have a chance, PP'ers should hype him up and bring him back in the team till he becomes the captain

[zubair007]

None! Everyone who ever aspired to be a captain became one eventually. Literally, when there was a will, they found a way in!

[Fireworks11]

Akhtar should be recalled for a final farewell match and be made captain for that game.

[RehanG]

Originally Posted by Fireworks11 Akhtar should be recalled for a final farewell match and be made captain for that game.

agree!

[SempreSami]

Nothing in Trescothick's autobiography suggests that he was the brains behind England's success under Vaughan.

[Saqs]

I don't think he himself admit to that - but outsiders were commenting on how much of an influence he used to have with Vaughan's decisions.

[kingusama92]

Originally Posted by Rana Had Akhtar been made captain in 2003, he would have certainly played many more games. He would make it his duty to remain fit. Sadly, his behaviour, arrogance and antics of the feild didnt ever make him elegible for the job.

Inzamam was the right choice back then.

In fact, we did quite well under Inzi.

[The Chaudrey]

In the current environment, this may sound quite ridiculous but I believe Mohammed Asif had the potential to be a good captain. Now, before you get the rotten tomatoes and pitch forks out, let me give you my reasons.

1. This is purely based on cricketing ability alone, but I completely accept that it would be nigh on impossible to justify now if he ever got to play cricket for Pakistan again.
2. I agree with the comment about bowlers having the potential to be good captains (especially for Pakistan).
3. In the years since Waqar and Wasim retired, he is without a doubt the most smart and intelligent bowlers that Pakistan have produced. He had a great awareness of the opposing batsmen’s strength and weakness and, in one of those lovely long spells, would work on a batsmen’s temperament before finally pouncing on them with a crafty piece of bowling. I also remember Osman Samiuddin making a similar comment about his smartness and his potential ability to captain a team.
4. I was just speaking to a friend yesterday and admiring the illustrious list of players he managed to subdue in his brief cricketing career. This includes Sehwag (who looked a different player when facing Asif), Laxman (who had his technique ruthlessly exposed on a number of occasions by Asif), Pietersen (Asif was the first to really make him look like a complete novice), Cook (looked all at sea against him). The list goes on and even includes the likes of Sangakara, Jayawardene and Jayasuriya.

In the middle of a tight battle, what a team needs is that flash of inspiration or tactical brilliance which brings about the downfall of an experienced and established batsmen. I believe Asif had that ability. We are never likely to discover his potential, but, given recent events, there is also a danger that off the field he could lead his team towards shame and indignity.

[srh]

Then the whole team would have been signing the song 'dum maro dum mit jaye ghum'

[saad1024]

Originally Posted by Ashraful_Rox I would love to hear his interviews

He still got time. Bring on Ajmal

[Abdullah22]

Umar Gul?