Harper says technology 'not the aid it is claimed'

[R0H1T]

Technology is "not the aid it is claimed to be" in reviewing on-field decisions, the former international umpire Daryl Harper has said. Having been at the centre of a decision-making storm that hastened his departure from Test cricket, Harper highlighted the problem of broadcast camera frame-rates as a central issue to the use of technology and the success or failure of the DRS. In the series between West Indies and India, which did not employ the DRS, Harper said television cameras shot at 25 frames per second, while during the World Cup on the subcontinent, they were ratcheted up to 50 frames per second. In each case, Harper believed, there was a high probability that the camera would not capture the ball landing or making contact with bat, pads or gloves, calling into question the veracity of replays and ball-tracking technology. "When a batsman plays a shot well away from his body, and you as an umpire see the ball strike a glove, go through to the keeper, and you hear the sound, you can draw no other conclusion than it has been gloved to the keeper and the batsman is out," Harper told ESPNcricinfo. "That it can't be confirmed by a camera at 25 frames per second, that's technology's problem. If they were filming at 1800 frames per second, like those super slow-mos, you'd see the glove depressed with the contact from the ball." Even at the improved rate of frames utilised during the World Cup, Harper argued the evidence could remain sketchy, particularly for ball-tracking. This issue, raised consistently by the Indian board, had seen a revised version of the DRS introduced at the ICC's annual conference in Hong Kong. The mandatory terms and conditions for the DRS that were approved consisted of infra-red cameras and audio-tracking devices. The ball-tracking technology has been removed from the ICC's original compulsory list of DRS technologies. This means that countries may still choose to use it, but can also use the system without ball-tracking, as will be the case in the upcoming England v India Test series. "At 50 frames per second there is a very slim chance of the ball ever being captured making contact with the pitch when it actually lands, because there is a minimum of 60cm [of the ball travelling] between frames," Harper said. "If the cameras cannot capture the ball touching the pitch, I'm not quite sure how they can claim the degree of accuracy they do claim. "So the more advanced technology becomes - unfortunately it is more expensive - the more likely the technology will be of a positive assistance to the game. At the moment it is not the aid that I believe it is claimed to be." Harper's scepticism bears resemblance to that of India's players and board, as best articulated by N Srinivasan, the BCCI secretary. Before the ICC annual conference decided on a revised version of the DRS that eliminated ball-tracking technology, Srinivasan said the hardware had to be beyond suspicion if it was to be used. "Nothing much has changed since we first opposed it. We welcome technology when it is 100% error-free," Srinivasan told the Indian Express in June. "In this case it is not, so we would continue to oppose the implementation of the DRS. "The Hawk-Eye is yet to convince us. This is a technology that deals with the projection, trajectory and angle of the ball. And from where the cameras are placed, it cannot give a foolproof solution. We raised these issues when the company had made a presentation in Chennai and no-one was completely certain about its accuracy.

SOURCE

[Blitz]

Erm, now harper is talking sense?


His arguments make no sense.

The only thing he really disagrees with is edges, which is THE ONLY PART BCCI agree with and want. So how is BCCI's decision vindicated?


On the hawk eye, he's not 'convinced'. Is that all? The Hawk eyes accuracy is atleast twice of that of Harper.

[Shayan]

The issue I have is that there have also been a number of contentious decisions made by hotspot. Where edges haven't shown up or where we've seen white marks appear even when the ball hasn't hit.

Hawkeye isn't 100% error free so why is the BCCI ok with it?

[R0H1T]

Erm, now harper is talking sense? His arguments make no sense. The only thing he really disagrees with is edges, which is THE ONLY PART BCCI agree with and want. So how is BCCI's decision vindicated? On the hawk eye, he's not 'convinced'. Is that all? The Hawk eyes accuracy is atleast twice of that of Harper.

They do for me -

1) The whole DRS thingy depends on basically a single technology based on videos/vision/pictures as in hawk eye & even hotspot for that matter.

2) Its been proven that without those ultra high speed cams motion tracking falls on the backside as well as edges/bat pad decisions.

3) In case of hotspot - under certain conditions the infrared cams might not detect an edge or the angle might be too acute for that as well.

4) I think the best of the lot are those ultra super slowmo cams but even then the 2D view & the angles to be taken into consideration make it susceptible to human interpretation.

All in all it feels like the game is getting way more complicated that what it was meant to be & people are debating decisions more than the actual field of play which really shows the sorry state of affairs in cricket & more importantly one of the reasons why its ailing other major team sports internationally !

[mastermind_quad]

Originally Posted by Blitz Erm, now harper is talking sense? His arguments make no sense. The only thing he really disagrees with is edges, which is THE ONLY PART BCCI agree with and want. So how is BCCI's decision vindicated? On the hawk eye, he's not 'convinced'. Is that all? The Hawk eyes accuracy is atleast twice of that of Harper.

Absolutely ....haha .. ...

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by R0H1T They do for me -

But you said India's position is vindicated.

1. It isn't, because harper totally disagreed with them.
2. When did Harper become so big, anything he says, is official, and therefore vindicates someone elses opinion?

Definition of Vindicate:

To clear of accusation, blame, suspicion, or doubt with supporting arguments or proof.

[R0H1T]

But you said India's position is vindicated. 1. It isn't, because harper totally disagreed with them. 2. When did Harper become so big, anything he says, is official, and therefore vindicates someone elses opinion?

1) Read the OP !

2) I think the technical aspects of DRS which he's brought forth plus the fact that INDIA wasn't too keen on the tech beforehand shows that putting all your eggs in a single basked(DRS) isn't worth it.

The DRS basically employs similar tech(videos) across the board with varying interpretations i.e. hawk eye, hot spot & all of these ultimately rely on human sense of vision & as has been proven 2D visuals can't accurately mirror our 3d world hence there will be perception problems.

BTW what your take on the last sentence in my previous post ?

[Xohaib]

The basis of DRS is that it is better than human eye,ofcourse there are always decisons which you are not 100 hundred % sure,but still it is better than harper and rudi,so stop moaning.

[Masterji]

BCCI wanted the umpires to sing to the Indian tune and DRS would make that impossible. Lets cut the c--- and see this pathetic stance for what its worth. We saw in the WC that they even managed to manipulate the DRS to allow their star to have a second chance. BCCI will go to any length to make Ind the best team.

[Sherlock]

Vindicated?

The whole Dhoni/Harper argument stemmed from a bad decision, which would of been over-turned on review.

So in-turn the Indian captain could stop bleating on about how he could of had a early dinner in his hotel.

[Cricfan4eva]

Originally Posted by Blitz Erm, now harper is talking sense? His arguments make no sense.

Of course.

It makes sense only when he is saying something like "Dhoni should've been punished."

[Cricfan4eva]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Vindicated? The whole Dhoni/Harper argument stemmed from a bad decision, which would of been over-turned on review. So in-turn the Indian captain could stop bleating on about how he could of had a early dinner in his hotel.

You know reading the article might have given you more idea, guessing that you just commented seeing the thread title. DRS is surely neccessary but what Harper has said makes sense too, why use 50 fps camera for World events and lower quality for tours like West Indies. UDRS should be consistent for it to work on a long term basis.

[Itachi]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Vindicated? The whole Dhoni/Harper argument stemmed from a bad decision, which would of been over-turned on review. So in-turn the Indian captain could stop bleating on about how he could of had a early dinner in his hotel.

how this is related to the thread? Totally irrelevant post. Read the original post first before commenting.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Cricfan4eva Of course. It makes sense only when he is saying something like "Dhoni should've been punished."

Actually, that was targeted at Indians, who said he's talking crap when asking for a ban on Dhoni.

Now he makes sense?



I like how you turned it around though. Nicely done

[R0H1T]

Actually, that was targeted at Indians, who said he's talking crap when asking for a ban on Dhoni. Now he makes sense? I like how you turned it around though. Nicely done

As the saying goes not guilty until proven !

"we've had problems with you before, Daryl"

So can't comment on that statement above cause its what Harper felt & might(Dhoni) have been misquoted/wrongly interpreted in the context of the game/heat of the moment ! As far as the press conference goes I've already posted on it that in the end WI tailenders dragged the match & Harper didn't have much influence there.

Now what Darryl has said in the OP are facts not interpretations or sentiments so either take it or just rubbish that doesn't change the fact a tiny bit !

[Cricfan4eva]

Originally Posted by R0H1T Now what Darryl has said in the OP are facts not interpretations or sentiments so either take it or just rubbish doesn't change the fact a tiny bit !

It does for the pakistani brothers if the thread title says "vindicating India's stand"