Fill the Void - since 2003

[observer1]

Firstly, Since Anwar retired in 2003, Pakistan has lacked a reliable opener. Pakistan has tried numerous combinations with little success, and it shows, since the team has not had anyone close to Anwar's success.

Secondly, For years, guys like Yousuf along with Inzamam-Ul-Haq/Younis were able to make huge scores:whether batting first or chasing down massive totals through huge partnerships.

Their success usually 'forgave' the shortcomings of the opening batsman. Where nearly every game, one of the opening pair would leave with single figures.

They also 'forgave' the shortcomings in the ever-changing bowling line-up. Being able to make up for the runs they conceded.

But since the departure of Yousuf and Co. it's finally beginning to show.

The lack of experience in the Pakistan Middle order does not know how to handle the poor opening display Pakistan has become accustom med to.

Against England, they manage to obtain the victory in the tests, but that was mainly to superb spin bowling. This however overshadowed the batting, which left alot for desired.

Who do you think has the ability to "Fill the Void" in experience - considering a past it Younis Khan and an Old Misbah will probably be departing soon too?

No real replacements have been found, and soon, the Pakistan team will have an inexperienced and untested team.

[Monty786]

The Pakistan team has yet to "rebuild" - testing times ahead like you said.

[PB]

The closest we had was Salman Butt in ODIS.... But wasn't meant to be.

[salman24]

I don't understand why Yousuf and Abdul Razzaq aren't there

[Down2Earth]

well it's because we're not giving any other players an opportunity to prove themselves at the highest level. hammad azam, fawad, salahuddin, talha, nasir jamshed are a few recent examples of being selected and then being discarded without a proper chance.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by salman24 I don't understand why Yousuf and Abdul Razzaq aren't there

Because it's Pakistan. Where nothing is important except what's in front of you at that present moment in time.

Only the Pakistan team would treat the likes of Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Yousuf, Azhar Mahmood, Abdul Razzaq, Saqlain Mustaq, Rashid Latif etc. how they did.

No other team would have casually "dismissed" these guys like the PCB did in my opinion.

[Down2Earth]

well we can't blame the PCB for everything. Razzaq faked an injury and yousuf hasn't played any cricket (at any level) for over a year, that's why they're not there.

[salman24]

Originally Posted by observer1 Because it's Pakistan. Where nothing is important except what's in front of you at that present moment in time. Only the Pakistan team would treat the likes of Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Yousuf, Azhar Mahmood, Abdul Razzaq, Saqlain Mustaq, Rashid Latif etc. how they did. No other team would have casually "dismissed" these guys like the PCB did in my opinion.

Exactly.

[youboy]

Saleem Elahi could have fill that void but was discarded by PCB. Had a decent average as an opener.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...g;view=innings

He was 28 when last played for Pakistan in ODI.

[Blitz]

Saeed Anwar has left a void.


But that void is NOWHERE near as big as the void Inzi/Yousuf left.


The amount of times we scored and chased 300 in that period of 2004-2007 was amazing. If we had a decent bowling attack, we could have really hit some milestones.

[Justcrazy]

Need to look forward, select the player who has the gutts , and back them with fair chances, just do not recycle the same old faces in the name of change.

[observer1]

It's sad the likes of Imran Nazir, Yasir Hameed, Kamal and even Fawad Alam were discarded the way they were also.

It's understandable for players to be dropped after a poor run of form.
But surely these guys must have proved themselves at some point in the domestic leagues?

Imran Nazir is performing well in the BPL at the moment, and im sure he can walk into the ODI team as things stand.

It seems PCB has an endless rotation system.

[Abid Z]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth well it's because we're not giving any other players an opportunity to prove themselves at the highest level. hammad azam, fawad, salahuddin, talha, nasir jamshed are a few recent examples of being selected and then being discarded without a proper chance.

i am not defending the current line up at all. it really sucks, some players more than others. However i havent seen hamad or salahuddin, but nasir jamshed, fawad, and shahzaib to an extent amjad shehzad will make a comeback, hopefully sooner rather than later but they also have dodgy techniques and temperaments. the shuffle to off stump, the kinky bat and playing across the line etc etc. i am sure they can sort it out and come back soon.

The only player that i can think of that was really discarded and not persisted with unfairly was mohammed Wasim as opener. He really did well and could have gone on. Even saleem elahi was ok, though i think he did good only against zimbabwe and was found out against South Africa in 2002/3.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by Abid Z i am not defending the current line up at all. it really sucks, some players more than others. However i havent seen hamad or salahuddin, but nasir jamshed, fawad, and shahzaib to an extent amjad shehzad will make a comeback, hopefully sooner rather than later but they also have dodgy techniques and temperaments. the shuffle to off stump, the kinky bat and playing across the line etc etc. i am sure they can sort it out and come back soon. The only player that i can think of that was really discarded and not persisted with unfairly was mohammed Wasim as opener. He really did well and could have gone on. Even saleem elahi was ok, though i think he did good only against zimbabwe and was found out against South Africa in 2002/3.

Fawad Alam should defo get a proper chance in the test team. When i say proper chance, i mean a nice regular run in the squad. None of this dropped from the team or relegated to 12th man every random game.

Saleem Elahi could have walked into the team now imo. But he was of the crop of openers looking to replace Aamir Sohail. Whilst Saeed Consolidated at the other end.

[Abid Z]

Originally Posted by observer1 Fawad Alam should defo get a proper chance in the test team. When i say proper chance, i mean a nice regular run in the squad. None of this dropped from the team or relegated to 12th man every random game. Saleem Elahi could have walked into the team now imo. But he was of the crop of openers looking to replace Aamir Sohail. Whilst Saeed Consolidated at the other end.

Fawad, well perhaps there are lots of views either way whether he will make it or not given his technique but you're right wont know until he is given a proper chance and he cant do anyworse than Farhat et al. especially as there are a couple of easy tours coming up

Saleem Elahi, i think the phrase, glasses and rose tinted springs to mind. his average was boosted considerably by the three hundreds he scored in zimbabwe prior to the 2003 world cup and even there he failed miserably. Wish he had done better but sadly not. May still make a comeback though, at 35 seems relatively young and is inept enough to make it!

lack of openers has been a consistent problem though, but looking back when butt, hameed, farhat, taufiq, hafeez made their debuts they all did relatively ok in bits. i think farhat and hameed were part of a record run of consecutive 50's, ah those were the days..

still there are enough cross batted sloggers around to keep us on our seats, cant wait for the 20/20's to see which elder is gonna be wheeled in. yes the last odi is a write off, predicting mostly same line up just to make sure that the current line up of farhat etc really are that bad

[Saqs]

Against England, they manage to obtain the victory in the tests, but that was mainly to superb spin bowling. This however overshadowed the batting, which left alot for desired.

Lol. There was some great batting that saved us in that series also, but obviously, the PP knee-jerk reaction has to come out.

Just a month ago, Hafeez and Taufeeq were giving us starts of 50+ nearly every game.

(Not saying I agree with the current batting line-up, just saying, have a bit of perspective)

[osee_bhai]

We have a young nucleus of batting that needs time and support, asad, umar and azhar have to be persisted with for a good amount of time. We could possibly try jamshed or fawad right now, but the other folks have to wait.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by Saqib S Lol. There was some great batting that saved us in that series also, but obviously, the PP knee-jerk reaction has to come out. Just a month ago, Hafeez and Taufeeq were giving us starts of 50+ nearly every game. (Not saying I agree with the current batting line-up, just saying, have a bit of perspective)

Dude, not saying the batting was woeful. But it is quite clear it was the bowling that won the games.

A 50+ start doesn't win you games. A Spinner tearing through the opponents top and middle order does.

Regardless, my point still stands. There is a lack of stability and reliability in the batting order.

[Rapt0rian]

There is ZERO aggression in Pakistani openers AND pacers, unlike Saeed Anwar/Aamir Sohail AND Wasim Akram/Waqar Younis/Shoaib Akhtar.

In EVERY match, Pakistan lose atleast 3 wickets before reaching 100. Hafeez is a total failure as an opener.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by Rapt0rian There is ZERO aggression in Pakistani openers AND pacers, unlike Saeed Anwar/Aamir Sohail AND Wasim Akram/Waqar Younis/Shoaib Akhtar. In EVERY match, Pakistan lose atleast 3 wickets before reaching 100. Hafeez is a total failure as an opener.

Exactly.

It was almost typical for the likes Yousuf and Inzamam-Ul-Haq to come in to the crease when the team was <100-3. It is clear many took their partnerships for granted.

[DOOSRA95]

Our Domestic cricket will always produce the likes of Hafeez, Nazir , Elahi , Hameed, Farhat..etc who do not know where the off stump is,County first class games are lacking,

[observer1]

Just to bump,

The lack of clinical bowling is beginning to show.

Umar Gul and Saeed Ajmal are Pakistan's key bowlers. If they dont take wickets, it seems nobody else well.

Afridi is struggling at the moment, and the others seem to be only able to take one or two wickets here and there.

It's sad that Pakistan has squandered talent in the past like Tanvir, Rao, Yasir and even Rana to an extent.

All of these bowlers were thrown in head first against opponents, and always lacked the mentoring of a senior Bowler.

There was a time when the team only had 5 bowlers. So if anyone had a bad game, he STILL had to finish off his 10 over rota.

Imran taught Wasim and Waqar who Taught Shoaib etc. (to an extent)

But since 2003, the PCB are just throwing any "young prospects" hoping they'll do good up until they have a bad patch, and are thrown out for the next batch of "young prospects".

The likes of Cheema and Riaz will be probably go down the line of Rao, Tanvir etc.

[Justcrazy]

When the team is doing well, you forget everything, that is the problem. Pakistan should have brought in more youngsters so that they could have learned from seniors . That did not happen. As a result could not develop a second strong batting unit. That was time when couple of good Test quality batsmen could have been developed. Just when Asim Kamal was coming to his own he was dropped and stupid players like and Hasan Raza were tried. That killed everything.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy When the team is doing well, you forget everything, that is the problem. Pakistan should have brought in more youngsters so that they could have learned from seniors . That did not happen. As a result could not develop a second strong batting unit. That was time when couple of good Test quality batsmen could have been developed. Just when Asim Kamal was coming to his own he was dropped and stupid players like and Hasan Raza were tried. That killed everything.

Indeed.

I dont want to call it corruption, incompetence or favoritism, but alot of talent has been squandered by the PCB.

This is why past starts like Wasim dont want anything to do with the PCB.

It'

[observer1]

Pakistan have lost 15 of their last 18 run chases (above 240) in the last 3 years.

Further proof that Inzi and Yousuf carried the team for so long when they were there. Once they left, the team is a joke.

Where are the detractors now ?

[Bilal7]

Pakistan have a bright batting future in my opinion.

Shehzad
Jamshed
Azhar
Akmal
Asad
Hammad

That is a complete batting line-up right there and we have many others like Fawad, Haris, etc.

[PB]

Azhar has filled one void for sure..

[hur rizvi]

Originally Posted by Bilal7 Pakistan have a bright batting future in my opinion. Shehzad Jamshed Azhar Akmal Asad Hammad That is a complete batting line-up right there and we have many others like Fawad, Haris, etc.

Agree 100%

I am sure if this line-up is given an extended run they wont disappoint....

Its time to give them a consistent run we have nothing to loose

[Sidcricfan]

Salman Butt was decent overall.

[LegCutter]

Azhar has filled the void of one opener; Misbah will last a few years as a middle-order batsman. Umar Akmal also has a future as a no 4.

1.Azhar Ali.
2.(jamshed, shehzad?)
3.?
4.Umar Akmal
5.Misbah
6.(insert keeper here)

[observer1]

But who is going to nurture this young talent?

It's either sink or swim with these guys.

Guys like Rao, Tanvir instantly come to mind, when they were expected to replace the likes of Shoaib Akhtar, Asif etc. with little more than a dozen caps between them.

[Aymeking]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy When the team is doing well, you forget everything, that is the problem. Pakistan should have brought in more youngsters so that they could have learned from seniors . That did not happen. As a result could not develop a second strong batting unit. That was time when couple of good Test quality batsmen could have been developed. Just when Asim Kamal was coming to his own he was dropped and stupid players like and Hasan Raza were tried. That killed everything.

So Unfair to blame players.it was decision of management.it i think we should praise Malik for his sacrifices for the team..do you think Malik was floop as an opener ??? please recheck ur facs and figure again

Malik opened for Pakistan in all three formats.here is his avg

Test 11 matches: his avg is over 42 runs including a Match saving hundred in SL

ODI 15 Matches: his avg is over 37 with SR around 75 two centuries

T20 2 matches Avg is over 29 with SR over 118



whats bad.it was our fault we didn't develop him in a fine opener...



Don't misguide MAN

[doctordamor]

The prblem with poster argument is right in this line

Secondly, For years, guys like Yousuf along with Inzamam-Ul-Haq/Younis were able to make huge scores:whether batting first or chasing down massive totals through huge partnerships.

Wat u should say for yrs Inzamam with some help from yosef and YK. Cricinfo once did a stat when inzamam score on avg team players score 10 runs more that was his impact. If Yosef or YK were so good that they had inzi playing 2nd fiddle then we wouldn't have been in this mess. Post Inzi stats speak for themselves,

Most pakistani fans are like this and they deserve this crappy team and crappiest performance because they refuse to praise genuine talent and heroes.

Just like we deserve the rulers we get we get the team we deserve

[Justcrazy]

The problem is Pakistan batsmen do not learn from mistakes. This is the problem ......

Look at someone like Virat Kohli ... how long he has played International cricket so many hundreds in chasing. there so long yet refuses to learn anything.