England without KP: Cooked?

[Marshland]

Pun intended.

Just fiddling around a little bit with scorecards from the past year, this may come to fruition either in the coming Lord's test, or in the India tour in November/December. Feel free to contribute.

Here's mine:

Cook
Strauss (c)
Trott
Bell
Bopara
Taylor
Prior (wk)
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson

If Bopara is still not ready for international cricket yet, and in spinning conditions, I guess it'll morph into:

Cook
Strauss (c)
Trott
Bell
Taylor
Bairstow
Prior(wk)
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Panesar

Really flabby middle-order, you have to say. Bopara-Bairstow-Bell-Taylor ain't gonna scare anybody. I also feel Prior is sort of under-utilized at #7, but that's the way they like it, the England management.

Just shows how much the guy added to the team, Pietersen. Had he been absent since the start of this year say, England would have been whitewashed 3-0 and 2-0 away, and would have most certainly lost the Headingley test as well. That would have made it a whopping 7-0 for the year.

[Saqs]

If ECB are the great managers that they claim to be, surely they will do everything in their power to keep KP in the Test side.

[IAJ]

Originally Posted by Marshland Just shows how much the guy added to the team, Pietersen. Had he been absent since the start of this year say, England would have been whitewashed 3-0 and 2-0 away, and would have most certainly lost the Headingley test as well. That would have made it a whopping 7-0 for the year.

And the indians would have been feeling a bit better...

[IAJ]

Originally Posted by Saqib S If ECB are the great managers that they claim to be, surely they will do everything in their power to keep KP in the Test side.

So you just have to be a world class player and then do/say what ever you want but still not worry about any consequenses?

Lets say it was Bopara instead of KP then ECB was at right to treat him like they are treating KP now?

[khalil1986]

Originally Posted by IAJ So you just have to be a world class player and then do/say what ever you want but still not worry about any consequenses? Lets say it was Bopara instead of KP then ECB was at right to treat him like they are treating KP now?

Exactly, no player should dictate terms ever the way KP has.

[Random Aussie]

You mean England being forced to field English players = cooked?

We all know that already

[Marshland]

Originally Posted by IAJ Lets say it was Bopara instead of KP then ECB was at right to treat him like they are treating KP now?

Bopara has never and will never single-handedly win any games for England. That's the fact of the matter isn't it? KP now and then plays a revolutionary innings that digs England out of a hole the rest of the team are unable to do anything about.

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by IAJ So you just have to be a world class player and then do/say what ever you want but still not worry about any consequenses? Lets say it was Bopara instead of KP then ECB was at right to treat him like they are treating KP now?

Not really.

All I am saying is it shouldn't be so hard to manage a player, especially if said player actually wants to play.

I know it can be hard to manage egos, but that is the job of the team management.

Not sure how they have allowed this to get to the stage it has, that's all.

I am a big advocate of punishing players equally (not necessarily rewarding equally, but punishing).

[LegCutter]

Originally Posted by Saqib S Not really. All I am saying is it shouldn't be so hard to manage a player, especially if said player actually wants to play.

Its not going to be a problem when the player wants to play. It's a problem when the player wants to decide for him what he wants to play.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Random Aussie You mean England being forced to field English players = cooked? We all know that already

Like the Australian Olympic team being forced to pick Australians.

< snigger >

[ads101]

England actually got to no.1 mainly without Pietersen. Pietersen was in poorish form. It was the England bowlers, Anderson, Swann namely and batsmen of Trott and Cook. Prior too, with an improvement with the gloves, and good crucial innings with the bat.

It was once they were no.1, Pietersen was crucial to helping England hang on to it. Won that test in Sri Lanka, forced a draw against SA (whom without, good chance England would have lost). And it looks like Pietersen has finally returned to that form before he lost captaincy (even though he wasn't exactly a poor player in that period anyway).

[Marshland]

Originally Posted by ads101 England actually got to no.1 mainly without Pietersen. Pietersen was in poorish form. It was the England bowlers, Anderson, Swann namely and batsmen of Trott and Cook. Prior too, with an improvement with the gloves, and good crucial innings with the bat.

That's not really true. KP scored a double ton in Adelaide didn't he? And a ton in another Ashes fixture. Similarly, a double ton vs India at Lord's, and a 170-odd at The Oval.

He's had his fair share of innings has KP regardless of era, which is why his average is kissing 50.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ads101 England actually got to no.1 mainly without Pietersen. Pietersen was in poorish form. It was the England bowlers, Anderson, Swann namely and batsmen of Trott and Cook. Prior too, with an improvement with the gloves, and good crucial innings with the bat.

This falls on deaf Antipodean ears. There is no point telling them again.

England are now entering a rebuilding phase with the batting heavily reliant on Cook, Trott, Bell and Prior.

[velu]

but without KP , england might not be #1 by now :KPGenius

[Robert]

Ah well, crisis averted!

[WalkingWiggett]

Originally Posted by Robert England are now entering a rebuilding phase with the batting heavily reliant on Cook, Trott, Bell and Prior.

If Bald Saffer is such an important cog in England's batting unit - and I agree he is, since he's a very good bat who often scores at a rate sufficient to scare the opposition - then maybe he himself is a sound long-term proposition batting at five or six (I like what I've seen of James Taylor though), opening up the possibilities for *gasp!* a five-front-man bowling attack. If fit, I think ST Finn must play, because of the extra pace/variety he offers. Other English seamers, even though they may occasionally be capable of it, don't touch 140 kph with any kind of regularity: they are classical English fast-mediums who rely on swing/seam. (OK so Barbs works up some extra pace when he's angry... )

[MattyB]

Originally Posted by Robert This falls on deaf Antipodean ears. There is no point telling them again. England are now entering a rebuilding phase with the batting heavily reliant on Cook, Trott, Bell and Prior.

Shock horror as a team has to rely on 4 main batsmen to do most of the work, because that never happens in any other teams.. Ohh wait.

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by Marshland That's not really true. KP scored a double ton in Adelaide didn't he? And a ton in another Ashes fixture. Similarly, a double ton vs India at Lord's, and a 170-odd at The Oval. He's had his fair share of innings has KP regardless of era, which is why his average is kissing 50.

His average used to be above 50s and touched down to 48 around the
time England became number 1. Trott averaged 60+ in that stretch. Cook as well. Bell was revelation.