WC'11 | Umar-Afridi-Kami-Razzaq : The Most Explosive Middle/Lower Order In The World?

[AZ]

IMO in terms of sheer firepower, nobody in the world has a more power-packed lineup.


agree or disagree?

[AZ]

if our top 4 can occupy the crease for just about 34-35 overs - in time for the harder new ball - I think we can easily add 120 runs in the last 15 overs, and even more if these 4 fire in the batting powerplay.

[kingusama92]

Hard to disagree with that. We do have the most explosive lower middle order.

NZ already felt a taste of what they can do.

India's middle order ain't too shabby either. Yuvraj Singh, Yusuf Pathan, MS Dhoni.

[emclub]

Agree...........no one in the world has these sort of power hitters......but we lack on top and middle

[haroonrasheed320]

we only lack consistency which is the most important factor. Each of the four players are different then one another in terms of skill, thought process & confidence level on the crease and we will only need two of them to fire for us to break into a commanding position.

I agree they might be the most devastating batsmen in terms of power & ability to hit the ball far but how often they find success is the problem.

[AZ]

I know Kami did well at 3 in the final ODI vs NZ, but he just isn't reliable enough.

if not anything else, one thing that YK and Misbah can certainly do is occupy the crease.

therefore I think they should bat higher the order, Misbah at 5 is just too slow.

[haroonrasheed320]

Originally Posted by emclub Agree...........no one in the world has these sort of power hitters......but we lack on top and middle

In that case we shouldn't be playing ODI cricket, we also need some players who can anchor the innings and we have got a perfect blend of that.

[Afridi_Fan]

In my opinion this Pakistani team looks very balanced as far as batting is concerned.

We have three top order players who can play all the shorts and score freely.







Then we have two stabilizers, who can buy their time and just concentrate on laying the foundation but surely not stalling the innings during that process.





And then all hell to break lose with explosive hitters down the order.







The tail isn't to bad either, all of them can hold the bat and add some very precious runs down the order.





Akhtar.

[suhaib]

agree but one of the worst top orders in the world as well./ which makes the middle/lower orders useless.

[*sallu*]

Its a tough one to be honest.

Sheer ability - yes, but not consistent enough to be building around such reputations

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by AZ I know Kami did well at 3 in the final ODI vs NZ, but he just isn't reliable enough. if not anything else, one thing that YK and Misbah can certainly do is occupy the crease. therefore I think they should bat higher the order, Misbah at 5 is just too slow.

As Afridi said during the press conference that there is no time for experiments now. So, I strongly believe that we will see the same batting order we used to see in the Kiwiland.

[kingusama92]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Its a tough one to be honest. Sheer ability - yes, but not consistent enough to be building around such reputations

Fair call.

Performing once in 3 or 4 matches is hardly going to do us any good.

However, in the essence of the explosiveness - they are the most destructive when they get going.

[cricket_fan_1]

how about yuvraj dhoni raina pathan harbhajan

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 how about yuvraj dhoni raina pathan harbhajan

They ever scored 128 in last 10 overs? I seriously doubt that.

[emclub]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 how about yuvraj dhoni raina pathan harbhajan

They aren't bad..........but they aren't Pakistani

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan They ever scored 128 in last 10 overs? I seriously doubt that.

yup...one example being the match in gwalior against the saffers...286/2(40 overs) to 401/3 at the end of the innings

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan As Afridi said during the press conference that there is no time for experiments now. So, I strongly believe that we will see the same batting order we used to see in the Kiwiland.

I think they should try this kind of experimentation to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith with the Kami at 3 experiment.

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by emclub They aren't bad..........but they aren't Pakistani

both the teams need just one of those players to click big time...

[emclub]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 yup...one example being the match in gwalior against the saffers...286/2(40 overs) to 401/3 at the end of the innings

That is 115 runs < 128

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 yup...one example being the match in gwalior against the saffers...286/2(40 overs) to 401/3 at the end of the innings

If my maths is correct, that is still less than 128, right?

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by AZ I think they should try this kind of experimentation to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith with the Kami at 3 experiment.

i second this...any quality bowling side will sort out shehzad and kamran at the top of the order...kamran moving down the order will alow him to slog at the death...

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan If my maths is correct, that is still less than 128, right?

oh...never knew that 128 is the benchmark

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by AZ I think they should try this kind of experimentation to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith with the Kami at 3 experiment.

Kami had played very well at the top of the order in Sub-Continent. If we drop Kami, then there will be just too many hitters down the order. So I think that the best position for him is at the top hald, not in the lower middle half.

[cricket_fan_1]

we came just bout close to the benchmark against england in rajkot...124 runs off the last 10

[cricket_fan_1]

bettered the benchmark by a run scoring 129 against hongkong

[AZ]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 yup...one example being the match in gwalior against the saffers...286/2(40 overs) to 401/3 at the end of the innings

isn't that the match were Sachin made 200?

that hardly counts as explosive stuff from numbers 5-8 batsmen

[riasat]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan If my maths is correct, that is still less than 128, right?

u must also consider the fact that the smallest field in anyplace else in the world is still bigger than the largest cricket stadium at NZ. Not all sixes would have been sixes in most ground amongst those 128 runs...

[Sir john]

lol to AZ bhai for thread.

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by riasat u must also consider the fact that the smallest field in anyplace else in the world is still bigger than the largest cricket stadium at NZ. Not all sixes would have been sixes in most ground amongst those 128 runs...

Okay Sir, thanks for correcting me. India score is equal to 189 in last ten overs where as that of Pakistan in the bigger grounds is equal to 23.

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by AZ isn't that the match were Sachin made 200? that hardly counts as explosive stuff from numbers 5-8 batsmen

YP scored 36 from 23

MSD scored 68 from 37

give them some credit

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 YP scored 36 from 23 MSD scored 68 from 37 give them some credit

That is 104 in 60 balls which equates to how many overs?

[usman2321]

Pakistan have the weakest top order but the strongest lower middle order.

Shewag----Hafeez----G. Smith----Watson
Tendulkar--Shehzad--Amla--------Haddin
Gambhir----K Akmal---Kallis--------Pinting
Kohli--------Younis-----Devillers----Clark
Yuvraj-------Misbah----Duminy-----Hussey D
Raina--------U Akmal--?-------------Ferguson
Dhoni--------Afridi------Boucher----Smith
Pathan------Razaq---Botha---------Johnson

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by Afridi_Fan That is 104 in 60 balls which equates to how many overs?

LOL

the best logic i came across...i thought you were talking about the last 10 overs of an innings...

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 LOL the best logic i came across...i thought you were talking about the last 10 overs of an innings...

I just added th numbers you gave me. Am I adding something from myself?

[shahrukh619]

i think kamran should switch with umar akmal. Umar performs better when he plays above. And i think it would be better if we send kamran at 5-6 (after Misbah) becuase he comes in very handy during powerplays. I think they should try this in the warm up games

[AZ]

Originally Posted by usman2321 Pakistan have the weakest top order but the strongest lower middle order. Shewag----Hafeez----G. Smith----Watson Tendulkar--Shehzad--Amla--------Haddin Gambhir----K Akmal---Kallis--------Pinting Kohli--------Younis-----Devillers----Clark Yuvraj-------Misbah----Duminy-----Hussey D Raina--------U Akmal--?-------------Ferguson Dhoni--------Afridi------Boucher----Smith Pathan------Razaq---Botha---------Johnson

good work mate.

the ? Is Faf du Plessis.




another plus in having Kami at 7 is that it would take pressure off Afridi and Razzaq in terms of consisently providing the boundary shots.

[cricket_fan_1]

Originally Posted by AZ good work mate. the ? Is Faf du Plessis. another plus in having Kami at 7 is that it would take pressure off Afridi and Razzaq in terms of consisently providing the boundary shots.

there is a mistake in that table i guess...india can't fit both raina and kohli into the line up at a time...will be a toss up between the two

[Afridi_Fan]

Originally Posted by cricket_fan_1 there is a mistake in that table i guess...india can't fit both raina and kohli into the line up at a time...will be a toss up between the two

That right. India will need three genuine bowlers and Bhajji. So they can only accomodate 7 batsmen.

[pakistanigoneaussie]

its got to be kohli , dhoni needs to stop his favoritism for raina just because he plays for CSK. plus kohli is second in rankings i think and is not a potential match fixer ( soz had to throw that in)

[Kray_jackson7]

Yes we definately do, but i really think PCB/management missed a trick by not testing umar at 3 and kami dropping in before afridi or after afridi and razzler.

[ali2220]

Originally Posted by riasat u must also consider the fact that the smallest field in anyplace else in the world is still bigger than the largest cricket stadium at NZ. Not all sixes would have been sixes in most ground amongst those 128 runs...

BUt Sir, This ground size was just fine for NZ batters who hit Akhtar for sixes for your fellow Indians, i guess the ground size only matter for Pak batters then?

[Impala_KaifTamasha]

Definatley the most explosive MashAllah followed closely by India- Yuvi, MS, Pathan

[Indiafan]

Pretty explosive all right, but a bit too inconsistent for my liking. If even 1-2 players click per match it would be great

[ali2220]

Its not the lower order that is inconsistent which should worry us, its the top order that is inconsistent.

[Paradox]

Yes it's explosive but highly inconsistent. People saying "oh one of those three - Umar, Afridi, Razzaq - will surely fire every game" are just BSing themselves, on many occasions they won't. Example - 1st and 5th ODI vs NZ (even though Afridi's knock of 40 odd in the 5th ODI was a very good one, but it didn't win us the game.. so yeah.)

[s2k]

The top 8 Indian batsman,7 of whom will play all avg more than 30 and S/R of more than 80.

SRT
Sehwag
Gambhir
Yuvi
Kohli
Dhoni
Pathan
Raina

Now thats a batting line up.

[ManHOOS]

Originally Posted by AZ IMO in terms of sheer firepower, nobody in the world has a more power-packed lineup. agree or disagree?

Not Agree because see this

Yuvraj
Raina
Dhoni
Pathan

[sunnykhan]

I think it's the most explosive and the most fragile middle order. Afridi, umar akmal and razzaq aren't consistent.

[Theo_14]

They are explosives indeed but are very inconsistent however once they get going then it's very difficult to stop them.

Umar Akmal, Afridi & Razzaq will play a key role during the World cup, especially when it comes to taking the last batting powerplay so I think that's when we are to see the best and most out of the big hitters.

I'm liking the combination in general here...

Hafeez, Shehzad & Kami - 3 solid openers who have a attacking approach towards the bowlers although Hafeez seems the most defensive out of the 3.

Younis Khan & Misbah - 2 batsmen who will have a mind set to form a partnership by rotating the strike constantly and hitting the ball through the gaps.

Umar Akmal, Afridi & Razzaq - 3 explosives batsmen who will hopefully be coming out at a time where batting powerplay has been taken, and aim to fully attack, depending on the situation ofcourse.

And let's not forget that the tail enders are capable of hitting big shots too, so I am quite pleased with the combination we have here, good stuff.

[rhussain33]

Out of all of them Razzaq can be the most destructive and if hes given a chance to get a ton like he did against SA in UAE hell be winning matcheseasily or even quick 50's like lords. he not going to be utilised coming in the last 2 overs trying to fight for strike just to get his eye in

[Savak]

What has Umar Akmal done since the T-20 against Australia in England? He has not played a single match winning innings or innings of substance since then.

[Rana]

Mark my words, you will only call them explosive every once in 5 games.

[cricket_fever]

definitely they are IF they perform to the best of their ability and show consistency

[MRSN]

Insha Insha Allah they will destroy best bowling attacks in the world cup.They are match-winners and Afridi and very affective in last ten overs.Misbah and Younis should make sure that they play 40 overs.

[Eagle_Eye]

Originally Posted by AZ IMO in terms of sheer firepower, nobody in the world has a more power-packed lineup. agree or disagree?

Laughable suggestion!!

Take Razzaq out and they will struggle to score 50 between them consistently!

[ads101]

The thing is maximum one will fire every match. In some teams maybe each of their players are less explosive, but if two out of three for example are firing regularly, as a unit they will be more explosive than one guy on his own.

Unless it's a Razzaq/Afridi century, but those don't come too regularly unfortunately.

[PakWC'11Champs]

AZ - Agreed.

Our batting is strong. Also Umar Gul and Wahab Riaz are pretty decent hitters. So your lineup is Akmal, Afridi, Razzaq, Riaz and Gul. That's a pretty sick combo of players that will raise the run rate.

Big question is whether this strategy will work when chasing. It clearly works when they bat first. When chasing you need your top 4 to play quicker in most cases and we don't see too much of that.

[RX]

Definitely Agree. What a sight it would be to see these 4 click in the World cup final!

We can all hope I guess!

[Atif]

They have proven to be very explosive once they get going, but they are incosistent. Lets hope for Pakistan's sake they fire in the WC.

[cricketindiafan]

Originally Posted by ali2220 BUt Sir, This ground size was just fine for NZ batters who hit Akhtar for sixes for your fellow Indians, i guess the ground size only matter for Pak batters then?

IIRC, Riasat is a Bangaldeshi cricket fan!

[JibranAnsari]

the most dangerous and collapsable.

[sakss]

on their day they could do some serious damage....

the top order needs to fire in order for the lower order to fire in the later overs..

hafeez, ahmed, kami and even YK shud be pretty comfortable on the Flat tracks

[Rizie]

other than Razzaq they arent good under pressure

[usman2321]

India might go with 2 fast bowlers and bhajji and then have yuvraj, pathan, raina and schewag bowl the other 20 overs. And in this situation both kohli and raina can play. But I guess india does not need so many batsmen lower down because thier top order is so strong. I think it will be the top 7 batsmen doing most of the batting.

[Inzy's Aloo]

I think Umar should bat at #3 instead of Kamran. Umar is the more complete batsman out of the two but i feel Kamran is more explosive and his game could be utilised down the order.
Aloo's batting line-up for the opener;

Hafeez
Shehzad
Umar
Younus
Misbah
Kamran
Afridi
Razzaq

[AZ]

too much pressure, we need experienced players in the top order.

his perfect position in the lineup is 5.

[Inzy's Aloo]

Originally Posted by AZ too much pressure, we need experienced players in the top order. his perfect position in the lineup is 5.

It depends, if we lose an early wicket then you can send the experienced Kamran in but if we get a decent opening partnership then Umar should come in at 3.
From what i have seen Umar seems to go into slog/reckless mode as soon as there is a powerplay

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

explosive but inconsistent

[Down2Earth]

gul and wahab will inshallah score runs at a strike rate of 300 too

[Alam_dar]

Biggest question is "If our batsmen FTBs?"

Indian batsmen like Raina and Yousuf Pathan are flat track bullies. They could also play spinners very well.

There is still big compitetion between Pakistan and India for having most explosive lower/middle Order.

Batting:

1. Sehwag ............... Shehzad ............... India edge

2. Tendulkar ............... Hafeez ............... poor Hafiz

3. Gambir ............... Kamran Akmal ............... India edge

4. Raina/Kohli ............... Yonus Khan ............... India edge

5. Yuvraj ............... Misbah ............... Pakistan edge according to present form of both players

6. Dhooni ............... Umar Akmal ............... India edge according to present form

7. Yousuf Pathan ............... Afridi ............... equal explosive at moment

8. Bhajji ............... Razzaq ............... Here Pakistan has huge edge in explosive batting

9. Pravin Kumar ............... Umar Gul ............... equal

10. Zaheer Khan ............... Wahab Riaz ............... equal

11. Aseesh Nehra ............... Shoaib Akhtar ............... equal



Bowling Comparison:

1. Zaheer Khan ............... Umar Gul ............... equal

2. Nehra ............... Shoaib Akhtar............... Pakistan edge

3. Pravin Kumar ............... Wahab Riaz............... Pakistan edge

4. Bhaji ............... Afridi ............... India edge

5. Yuvraj/Yousuf/Raina ............... Hafeez/Razzaq ............... equal

[insaaniyat]

Originally Posted by AZ if our top 4 can occupy the crease for just about 34-35 overs - in time for the harder new ball - I think we can easily add 120 runs in the last 15 overs, and even more if these 4 fire in the batting powerplay.

AZ bhai on paper it sure does sound good. But how often it has happened? If at least two of them click in every match, we will be unbeatable, Insha-Allah

[emclub]

@Alam_Dar Good Analysis

[AZ]

Originally Posted by insaaniyat AZ bhai on paper it sure does sound good. But how often it has happened? If at least two of them click in every match, we will be unbeatable, Insha-Allah

well of course not all 4 will fire at the same time, or all the time.

but like you said, if even 2 of them get going, they can accelerate the scoring very easily.

this should at least be IMO the batting strategy for us this WC.

be selective and conservative till about the 2nd new ball, and then go hell for leather.

[Chocolaty Laila]

I agree with OP, Kami in middle order is more suitable! more often that not he will play some loose shot and get out against the new ball! if they need him then they can always send him before Afridi or Razzaq at 6!

[pakcricketfan]

In terms of sheer firepower and ability, YES this is the most explosive lower order. But but but.. they are probably the most inconsistent too!

On paper, this is one line up to be afraid of. But whether the three will deliver or not is the big question.
Imagine if all four of them fire in the same match!! Now that would be SOMETHING!

[PakPrince]

explosive - yes
reliable - no

[attock]

Imagine they all fire, bloody hell that would be havoc...........But then again thats my imagination........Inshallah they all will perofrm and bring the trophy back to Pakistan