Saqlain was not Warne

[cornered-tigers]

Tendulkar tried to get on top of Saqlain, like he did to Warne, but it backfired, I have noticed Tendulkar is weak against off-spin versus leg-spin. He struggled against Ajmal too, dont know if thats true for Murali,

[Down2Earth]

wth was dravid doing?

saqi in my opinion was the greatest legal off spin bowler ever.

[alberto]

saqlain had so much variations in his repetoire which is unbelievable for an off spinner

[cornered-tigers]

[alberto]

top catch by moin to get dada out

[alberto]

only 17 needed 4 wickets left and the little master is there.pakistan in the 90s used to fight till the end like warriors and played epic games

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by alberto only 17 needed 4 wickets left and the little master is there.pakistan in the 90s used to fight till the end like warriors and played epic games

the key was "never die" attitude, and the players were very talented, and to be honest Indians were no match for that Pakistani team, hands down!

[Fireworks11]

Splendid bowling by Saqlain, nothing better than silencing the Indian crowd. :kanpur

His guile was immense.

[freelance_cricketer]

Saqi was no Qadir or Mushy who got hammered brutally by The Man

He has definitely been more comfortable against leg spin compared to off spin. Saqi is the best off spinner ever, no kidding

[dinakar]

That test series was Saqlain's series, he was unbeatable. but in an ODI series a year ago at Dhakka, Tendulkar was on top of Saqi.

[Ashraful_Rox]

Saqlain was the best, I am just curious why wasn't he selected for 2007 world cup, why did his career end only at 2003, 2004, he could have played longer. Can anyone fill me in.

[adit_sh]

Originally Posted by Ashraful_Rox Saqlain was the best, I am just curious why wasn't he selected for 2007 world cup, why did his career end only at 2003, 2004, he could have played longer. Can anyone fill me in.

His career was eventually finished by Sehwag in Multan

[Ashraful_Rox]

Harsha Bhogle "Oh dear he's got the leading edge"

[cricketfanfirst]

Saqlain was one of the best spinners during his time. I think during his last few years, he over bowled doosra and in turn lost the venom in his off-spin, this might have contributed to his premature retirement. But, even if you look at his stats of last years, they are good except for few series. The last test match was a bad one though, Sehwag took him for plenty of runs.

I think Pakistan definitely made a mistake in not persisting him for some more years. Not sure, if he had any problems with board/captain/other players.

[SameerP]

Originally Posted by dinakar the bottom line is, whenever a Pakistani bowler appeals, it should be given out without thinking twice. else, the umpire is a cheat I presume it is the same appeal you posted some days back, right ?

Are u joking

[Inzy's Aloo]

Its a shame his career ended rather early, Saqi really was a genius bowler.

He played his final ODI at the age of 26 (in 2003) and ended up with a phenomenal record of 288 wickets in 169 matches, at an average of 21.78 and a strike rate of 30!

[wasi90lk]

Originally Posted by Inzy's Aloo Its a shame his career ended rather early, Saqi really was a genius bowler. He played his final ODI at the age of 26 (in 2003) and ended up with a phenomenal record of 288 wickets in 169 matches, at an average of 21.78 and a strike rate of 30!

he could have surpassed wasim akram and become the highest wicket taker in ODI.

a talent wasted, for sure.

[1137moiz]

MashaAllah Saqlain was a really ingenious offie. That word is overutilized but he was top-class

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by alberto top catch by moin to get dada out

And Moin was a pretty crappy keeper, but he was still light years ahead of Akmal...which goes to show how pathetic this buffoon akmal was...and we persisted with him for more then 50 tests, conspiracies injury faking, and cavorting with the likes of Majeed Mazhar...

[what ho]

Originally Posted by 1137moiz MashaAllah Saqlain was a really ingenious offie. That word is overutilized but he was top-class

Haven't heard too many people using "ingenious" to describe bowlers, to be honest, Moiz!

[CoolSERAZ]

pak were too soon in dumping their old brigade. one bad wc and they are dumped.

i am sure bowlers like gul, rana naved, kaneria and all starting out then woulda benefited from experienced players like the 2 w's and saqi.

a common excuse is the oldies had run their course. but their wc stats were not that bad tbh.

thankfully, inzy was persisted with. else it coulda been MUCH worse.

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by CoolSERAZ pak were too soon in dumping their old brigade. one bad wc and they are dumped. i am sure bowlers like gul, rana naved, kaneria and all starting out then woulda benefited from experienced players like the 2 w's and saqi. a common excuse is the oldies had run their course. but their wc stats were not that bad tbh. thankfully, inzy was persisted with. else it coulda been MUCH worse.

Personally, I like to slowly phase out seniors so that by that time juniors are well matured. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the 03 WC, where almost all seniors were sacked. Egress Anwar and Akram could have been utilized, so that they alongwith Inzi and Akhtar could form a core fir the new unit. Hell, Anwar cud still have played for a few years and Pak would not have fallen into opening conundrum, he could have been a good mentor for Butt, and maybe with a noble character he had, we might still have had Amer (no bad company
of bad Butt)

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by Saad Hasan And Moin was a pretty crappy keeper, but he was still light years ahead of Akmal...which goes to show how pathetic this buffoon akmal was...and we persisted with him for more then 50 tests, conspiracies injury faking, and cavorting with the likes of Majeed Mazhar...

Moin was a fighter, though Rashid was a better keeper, one more thing that went for Akmal was no competition hence no threat to his place,

[shahidafridi123]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth wth was dravid doing? saqi in my opinion was the greatest legal off spin bowler ever.

Do you mean Murli by legal???

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by SameerP Sehwag

here is the real reason fir his being out of the team, taken from
another member's post,

"Saqlain didn't retire early, in fact I dont think he's officially retired from international cricket at all.

After the 2003 World Cup, the Pakistan team was full of players from the nineties, many of whom were over the hill. However these weren't just any players, these were the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Mushy, Moin, etc.

There weren't many men strong enough to withstand the political pressure that would be applied if the PCB tried to drop any of the above guys. One of the guys who was strong enough was Aamir Sohail and so he was appointed the Chief Selector.

Aamir did what was required, he got rid of all the big names but he went a lot further than what was needed. He even got rid of guys like Anwar, Saqlain, Inzamam, Nazir, Afridi and Elahi who could've (and in some cases did) carried on playing.

Saqlain was one of the guys that Aamir got rid of in 2003.

Saqi did get another chance but it was on a really flat pitch and he took a real pounding. At the same time Kaneria was taking lots of wickets in Tests and Malik and Hafeez were doing the job in ODIs plus they were seen as batsmen too.

So Saqi got sidelined for a few years. During that time he ended up having operations on both his knees and was never the same again.

In May 2008 Saqi qualified to play for England. However we never found out if England would've picked him because Saqi joined the ICL and got banned from international cricket! By the time the ICL disbanded and Saqi was cleared to play international cricket, he wasnt even playing county cricket anymore.

So ended the career of Saqlain Mushtaq, one of the deadliest death bowlers in the history of the game."

That clown Sehwag was not the reason, he himself was sidelined when Asif showed the World that the guy was technically incorrect,

[Amjid Javed]

Very strange to see Inzi fielding infront off the wicket at bat pad! very nimble catch though!

was a fantastic test match that and great win!

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Very strange to see Inzi fielding infront off the wicket at bat pad! very nimble catch though! was a fantastic test match that and great win!

Inzi used to stand close to batsmen in those days. listen to this fro the horse's mouth, it is around 3:30,

[Inzy's Aloo]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers here is the real reason fir his being out of the team, taken from another member's post, "Saqlain didn't retire early, in fact I dont think he's officially retired from international cricket at all. After the 2003 World Cup, the Pakistan team was full of players from the nineties, many of whom were over the hill. However these weren't just any players, these were the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Mushy, Moin, etc. There weren't many men strong enough to withstand the political pressure that would be applied if the PCB tried to drop any of the above guys. One of the guys who was strong enough was Aamir Sohail and so he was appointed the Chief Selector. Aamir did what was required, he got rid of all the big names but he went a lot further than what was needed. He even got rid of guys like Anwar, Saqlain, Inzamam, Nazir, Afridi and Elahi who could've (and in some cases did) carried on playing. Saqlain was one of the guys that Aamir got rid of in 2003. Saqi did get another chance but it was on a really flat pitch and he took a real pounding. At the same time Kaneria was taking lots of wickets in Tests and Malik and Hafeez were doing the job in ODIs plus they were seen as batsmen too. So Saqi got sidelined for a few years. During that time he ended up having operations on both his knees and was never the same again. In May 2008 Saqi qualified to play for England. However we never found out if England would've picked him because Saqi joined the ICL and got banned from international cricket! By the time the ICL disbanded and Saqi was cleared to play international cricket, he wasnt even playing county cricket anymore. So ended the career of Saqlain Mushtaq, one of the deadliest death bowlers in the history of the game." That clown Sehwag was not the reason, he himself was sidelined when Asif showed the World that the guy was technically incorrect,

Great post

Luckily for Sehwag he didn't get to face a young, prime Saqi

[Amir]

People forgetting Saqlian had Sehwag very early if it wasn't for the amazing Sami.

[QuarterBack]

You need a youtube video and a thread to figure out that Saqlain from Pakistan was not Warne from Australia?

Duh!

[Justcrazy]

Shoaib Malik was preferred to Saqi because he could bat.........that was a big blunder. Saqlain is the best ODI spinner the world has seen. He has amazing strike rate.

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by Justcrazy Shoaib Malik was preferred to Saqi because he could bat.........that was a big blunder. Saqlain is the best ODI spinner the world has seen. He has amazing strike rate.

This is what you ge when cheats are included in the team,

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by QuarterBack You need a youtube video and a thread to figure out that Saqlain from Pakistan was not Warne from Australia? Duh!

You did not get the point or are just shying away from it, it was more for saying it to tendulkar, son, Saqlain is not warne,

[SG]

Saqlain is not warne,

How could he be? Warne is arguably the best ever spinner to grace the game, while Saqlain is probably not even in the top-10 spinners of all time. And if you didn't notice Warne was a leggie while Saqlain bowled off spin.

[kkmix]

Originally Posted by SG How could he be? Warne is arguably the best ever spinner to grace the game, while Saqlain is probably not even in the top-10 spinners of all time. And if you didn't notice Warne was a leggie while Saqlain bowled off spin.

I would like to know your top 10 spinners of all time.

[SG]

In no particular order,

Warne, Murali, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Bedi, Benaud, Chandra, O' Reilly, Gupte, Grimmett

[Sanchez]

Originally Posted by SG In no particular order, Warne, Murali, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Bedi, Benaud, Chandra, O' Reilly, Gupte, Grimmett

Prasanna, Qadir??

[SG]

IMO, Qadir was overrated. Prasanna was good but mostly average against better sides of his time like WI and Eng.

[Krishnan]

It was not that sachin was all at sea against saqlain.he blasted him in the independence cup in dhaka in 99

he hit 2 sixes and a four respectively in saqlain's first over first ball in 3 matches.you can do that in one match but to hit a boundary off the first ball in 3 matches in the same tournament is pure brilliance,and all of them were by coming down the track

[kkmix]

Originally Posted by SG In no particular order, Warne, Murali, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Bedi, Benaud, Chandra, O' Reilly, Gupte, Grimmett

By Gupte, you mean this guy?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/co...yer/28878.html

if so then ... guy who played 3 test matches, dude, really?

Even Kumble? he was average at best. Even his average doesn't suggest he was better than Saqlain.

And you are really pushing it when you add players from early 1900s, only to keep Pakistani bowlers out of that top 10 list. One can clearly see your bias when you do not add a bowler who reached the 100 and 200 wicket mark the quickest, out of all the bowler, including fast bowlers, in ODI history.

Anyways, I am surprised you didn't mention Harbhajan Singh or Sunil Joshi in your list.

For me, Saqlain would be right after Warne and Murli.

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by Inzy's Aloo Great post Luckily for Sehwag he didn't get to face a young, prime Saqi

Saqi still had sehwag's number if it wasn't for that joker Sami who dropped a regulation catch in the outfield when shewag was on 60 odd...

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by SG IMO, Qadir was overrated. Prasanna was good but mostly average against better sides of his time like WI and Eng.

If Qadir was overrated then Warne must be the biggest overrated doper ever to have played cricket...

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by SG How could he be? Warne is arguably the best ever spinner to grace the game, while Saqlain is probably not even in the top-10 spinners of all time. And if you didn't notice Warne was a leggie while Saqlain bowled off spin.

A very convenient argument for Indians to make, since Sachin had warne's number at home....

Though Indians then get ahead of themselves and also belittle Qadir not knowing that doing so also betrays their true assessment of Warne...If Warne was the greatest then Qadir must be a pretty close second...

[SG]

Originally Posted by kkmix By Gupte, you mean this guy? http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/co...yer/28878.html if so then ... guy who played 3 test matches, dude, really? Even Kumble? he was average at best. Even his average doesn't suggest he was better than Saqlain. And you are really pushing it when you add players from early 1900s, only to keep Pakistani bowlers out of that top 10 list. One can clearly see your bias when you do not add a bowler who reached the 100 and 200 wicket mark the quickest, out of all the bowler, including fast bowlers, in ODI history. Anyways, I am surprised you didn't mention Harbhajan Singh or Sunil Joshi in your list. For me, Saqlain would be right after Warne and Murli.

This is what is called being biased. BTW, do you know what biased means?

And reaching 100/200 wickets in ODIs, are we even discussing ODIs here? Saqlain was one of the best ever ODI spinners. No question about that. But he was nowhere near top-10 test spinners of all times.

As for Gupte, I'll go by what someone like Sobers has to say about him rather than nobodies like you.

[SG]

A very convenient argument for Indians to make, since Sachin had warne's number at home....

Laughable 'argument' really. We had Lara's number as well but we don't rate him as the best.

[SG]

Originally Posted by Krishnan It was not that sachin was all at sea against saqlain.he blasted him in the independence cup in dhaka in 99 he hit 2 sixes and a four respectively in saqlain's first over first ball in 3 matches.you can do that in one match but to hit a boundary off the first ball in 3 matches in the same tournament is pure brilliance,and all of them were by coming down the track

Newbies won't understand this.

For them, Saqlain is 3rd best spinner of all time. lol. I'd say, why stop at 3rd why not hold him as the best ever? After all, he was fastest to 100 and 200 ODI wickets.

[Krishnan]

Originally Posted by saad hasan saqi still had sehwag's number if it wasn't for that joker sami who dropped a regulation catch in the outfield when shewag was on 60 odd...

if.....

If.....

If.....

[SG]

Originally Posted by Saad Hasan If Qadir was overrated then Warne must be the biggest overrated doper ever to have played cricket...

Just because you rate Qadir highly don't belittle Warne.

[SG]

If Warne was the greatest then Qadir must be a pretty close second

More lols.

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by SG Just because you rate Qadir highly don't belittle Warne.

What you said doesn't eve make sense...and I don't see where you connected the two...

Nonetheless let me take a crack at it...

When did I belittle Warne...I am only highlighting your double standard and cognitive dissonance...bulk of Warne's wickets came against traditionally weak spin playing countries, Eng, Windies, Saffers, Pak, NZ, etc. where as he struggled against teams that were contemporaneously considered good against spin, i.e. SL and India, especially at home...

Qadir dominated the likes of Eng and WI, two teams Warne also dominated, he struggled against India especially in India, much like Warne...plus Warne was supported by the biggest juggernaut of a team since the pace ball battery packed all conquering Windies of 70s and 80s...Therefore, there is very little that separates the two...

If you don't have a concrete response backed by proper analysis, please spare me and others of your childish lols which only highlights your typical indian bias...

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by SG More lols.

Read above and try harder...I know its a bit more difficult for you lot, but please do...

[kkmix]

Originally Posted by SG This is what is called being biased. BTW, do you know what biased means?

Lol this is your comeback eh ... I called you bias when you added freakin gazillion unknown Indian bowlers, who barely played any test matches ... and when I added Saqlain, I am biased all of sudden, mirchi lag gai?

Originally Posted by SG And reaching 100/200 wickets in ODIs, are we even discussing ODIs here? Saqlain was one of the best ever ODI spinners. No question about that. But he was nowhere near top-10 test spinners of all times.

lol so ODIs don't count when making all time best spinners list? lol are you a joke?

Originally Posted by SG As for Gupte, I'll go by what someone like Sobers has to say about him rather than nobodies like you.

lol so it's your ranking or Sobers Ranking?

Mind you, Sachin once said Razzaq is one of the hardest bowlers he has faced. Are you going to argue that Razzaq is top 10 bowler of all time? stop making a fool of yourself man.

[Saad Hasan]

Originally Posted by Krishnan if..... If..... If.....

What's your point...

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by Krishnan It was not that sachin was all at sea against saqlain.he blasted him in the independence cup in dhaka in 99 he hit 2 sixes and a four respectively in saqlain's first over first ball in 3 matches.you can do that in one match but to hit a boundary off the first ball in 3 matches in the same tournament is pure brilliance,and all of them were by coming down the track

Sachin took a calculated gamble, because spinners take sometimeto settle in their rythm and cast a web around the batsman, by hitting a couple of sixes and a four doesnot mean he overshadowed Saqlain, teenda was a smart guy, he knew on e Saqlain settles he would be unplayable,
for batsman we can show hits, which usually come more often, but for the bowler's greatness it's just one ball that he claims the wkt, but most average audience tend to overlook the fishnet created by the bowler to get a good batsman is almost the same,

[praveen]

Originally Posted by kkmix Lol this is your comeback eh ... I called you bias when you added freakin gazillion unknown Indian bowlers, who barely played any test matches ... and when I added Saqlain, I am biased all of sudden, mirchi lag gai? lol so ODIs don't count when making all time best spinners list? lol are you a joke? lol so it's your ranking or Sobers Ranking? Mind you, Sachin once said Razzaq is one of the hardest bowlers he has faced. Are you going to argue that Razzaq is top 10 bowler of all time? stop making a fool of yourself man.

That is a good counter argument from KKmix. Waiting for SG's reply.

[dinakar]

Originally Posted by kkmix Lol this is your comeback eh ... I called you bias when you added freakin gazillion unknown Indian bowlers, who barely played any test matches ... and when I added Saqlain, I am biased all of sudden, mirchi lag gai? .

who are the unknown Indians who hasn't played any tests in his list? Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Subhash Gupte are all known names for those who follow and read about test cricket.

as for Sachin-Saqlain case, it was a good dual. Saqi was phenomenal in that test series and was all over the Indian batsmen. But Sachin has the edge over him ODIs.

[dinakar]

Originally Posted by kkmix By Gupte, you mean this guy? http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/co...yer/28878.html if so then ... guy who played 3 test matches, dude, really?

ok, I realize that you looked at 'wrong' Gupte ! It is Subhash Gupte he was talking about

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/28880.html

cheers!

[dinakar]

EDIT: repost

[SG]

Originally Posted by kkmix Lol this is your comeback eh ... I called you bias when you added freakin gazillion unknown Indian bowlers, who barely played any test matches ... and when I added Saqlain, I am biased all of sudden, mirchi lag gai?

Just because you don't know the likes of Bedi, Chandra and Gupte, doesn't make them unknown. And you're not biased because you added Saqlain there. He was good spinner in tests but nowhere near top-10 of all time. You're biased because you ranked him just after Warne and Murali. Is it that difficult to understand?

lol so ODIs don't count when making all time best spinners list? lol are you a joke?

Its you who is joke. Just because Saqlain had a great record in ODIs doesn't make ODIs tenable to list all time greats in any discipline.

lol so it's your ranking or Sobers Ranking?

Its mine but definitely influenced by what some of the all time greats think about their contemporaries.

Mind you, Sachin once said Razzaq is one of the hardest bowlers he has faced. Are you going to argue that Razzaq is top 10 bowler of all time? stop making a fool of yourself man.

Sign of a creature losing the fight. He said that in the context of ODIs and only a nobody like you would bring in ODIs to measure greatness.

[SG]

Originally Posted by praveen That is a good counter argument from KKmix. Waiting for SG's reply.

Good argument? Are you sure? Bringing in ODIs to find all time greats? Especially when OP quoted a clipping from tests.

Yep, definitely. This indeed is a senseless rant from a really biased nobody.

[Krishnan]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers Sachin took a calculated gamble, because spinners take sometimeto settle in their rythm and cast a web around the batsman, by hitting a couple of sixes and a four doesnot mean he overshadowed Saqlain, teenda was a smart guy, he knew on e Saqlain settles he would be unplayable, for batsman we can show hits, which usually come more often, but for the bowler's greatness it's just one ball that he claims the wkt, but most average audience tend to overlook the fishnet created by the bowler to get a good batsman is almost the same,

If u had seen the match,it was not a calculated gamble at all.It was just raw sachin at his best(at that period of time he was just attacking and nothing else).you dont get the point here.its just not a couple of sixes and a four,its the boundary first ball first over down the track every time he came to bowl on in the tournament.in the final match to counter sachin doing that he went around the wicket,but sachin still came down the track and hit him for a six(and i dont see that sort of thing happening to lot of good bowlers)...and he went on to make 90 odd with 3 or 4 sixes in one match and 41 of 26 in the final.

[praveen]

Originally Posted by SG Good argument? Are you sure? Bringing in ODIs to find all time greats? Especially when OP quoted a clipping from tests. Yep, definitely. This indeed is a senseless rant from a really biased nobody.

You are a top poster, but you should stop getting personal and tone it down a bit is what i feel.

Also when he quoted Sachin, it does not matter whether it was meant for ODIs or tests , his context was about players rating their peers.

[1137moiz]

Originally Posted by what ho Haven't heard too many people using "ingenious" to describe bowlers, to be honest, Moiz!

I started out with genius, then changed it

[Masterji]

Saqlain was the greatest off spinner with clean action we have seen in the modern era. A genius wasted by over use and injuries.

[SID_ZONE]

Great thread,I always knew Saqlain was not Warne,but thanks for the confirmation

[90MPH]

What a joke - Only an Indian poster (i.e. SC) would say Saqlain is not in the top 10 spin bowlers of all time.
In his prime he was unbelievable (95-99) - In many games he would bowl right at the death of 50 over cricket for Pakistan.
Lets not forget it was Saqlain was the inventor of the doosra, and he disguised it very well - did not spin as much but his arm was straight as a whistle compared to the jerky actions you have today who bowl the doosra (Harbajhan, Ajmal, Botha).

However I agree with many here he should have achieved much more, though he did suffer horrible knee injuries - after that he simply became a shadow of himself.

[Inzy's Aloo]

Originally Posted by 90MPH What a joke - Only an Indian poster (i.e. SC) would say Saqlain is not in the top 10 spin bowlers of all time. In his prime he was unbelievable (95-99) - In many games he would bowl right at the death of 50 over cricket for Pakistan. Lets not forget it was Saqlain was the inventor of the doosra, and he disguised it very well - did not spin as much but his arm was straight as a whistle compared to the jerky actions you have today who bowl the doosra (Harbajhan, Ajmal, Botha). However I agree with many here he should have achieved much more, though he did suffer horrible knee injuries - after that he simply became a shadow of himself.

Saqi was truly a great bowler. Took off-spin bowling to a new level. It was a previlage watching such a genuis at work. Those questioning his greatness are simply deluded

[cornered-tigers]

Originally Posted by Krishnan If u had seen the match,it was not a calculated gamble at all.It was just raw sachin at his best(at that period of time he was just attacking and nothing else).you dont get the point here.its just not a couple of sixes and a four,its the boundary first ball first over down the track every time he came to bowl on in the tournament.in the final match to counter sachin doing that he went around the wicket,but sachin still came down the track and hit him for a six(and i dont see that sort of thing happening to lot of good bowlers)...and he went on to make 90 odd with 3 or 4 sixes in one match and 41 of 26 in the final.

but that is in ODIs right? a poster called SG is shutting out Saqlian saying that he was a very good ODI bowler but not test bowler, you are trying to say Sachin ogt over Saqlain in ODI, but the thing is Saqlain tourbled Sachin a lot and that is not a unknown fact. It is okay to acknowledge that as Sachin is a batsman not God. Recent example was Ajmal ragging the little master's reutation in Mohali. If you ask Sachin he too would acknowledge the fact that he had no clue about reading the off-spin, top-spin or the doosra. If he does not that then he is lying because the video recording is there for everyone to see. Similarly if Saqlain was blasted in some of the matches it could be some issues with his form in that particular series. Mind you, Ws were not playing in that series and lot of burden on Saqlain that might have added to the pressure. But, coming back to the original thread, Tendulkar was a little arrogant in going after Saqlain from the first ball and that brought down his downfall, thats why I said "Hey Teedna! watchout, Saqi is not Warne!"

[Inzy's Aloo]

Originally Posted by SG Qadir was overrated.

Originally Posted by SG This is what is called being biased. BTW, do you know what biased means? And reaching 100/200 wickets in ODIs, are we even discussing ODIs here? I'll go by what someone like Sobers has to say about him rather than nobodies like you.

a biased person, asking someone else to explain the essence of bias. Then I guess we can't mess with your opinion of bias!

ODI's are also cricket, did you forget that? Or does it hurt that much that Saqlain had phenomenal ODI stats?

Btw, Keep your cool, no need to label anyone a 'nobody'. Sir Gary the gentleman would not be very happy with you!

Originally Posted by SG Laughable 'argument' really.

Yeh I agree its been quite funny

Originally Posted by SG Newbies won't understand this.

Easy now! we're not all ancient fossil's who seen the great Clarrie Grimmett bowl!

Originally Posted by SG He was good spinner in tests but nowhere near top-10 of all time. Its you who is joke. Just because Saqlain had a great record in ODIs doesn't make ODIs tenable to list all time greats in any discipline. Sign of a creature losing the fight. He said that in the context of ODIs and only a nobody like you would bring in ODIs to measure greatness.

If Saqlain is "nowhere near the top 10 spinners" i'd like to know which spinners are?

Oh dear! looks like somebody has completely lost it

Originally Posted by SG Yep, definitely. This indeed is a senseless rant from a really biased nobody.

You've just summed up yourself perfectly, admire your honesty sir

[Krishnan]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers but that is in ODIs right? a poster called SG is shutting out Saqlian saying that he was a very good ODI bowler but not test bowler, you are trying to say Sachin ogt over Saqlain in ODI, but the thing is Saqlain tourbled Sachin a lot and that is not a unknown fact. It is okay to acknowledge that as Sachin is a batsman not God. Recent example was Ajmal ragging the little master's reutation in Mohali. If you ask Sachin he too would acknowledge the fact that he had no clue about reading the off-spin, top-spin or the doosra. If he does not that then he is lying because the video recording is there for everyone to see. Similarly if Saqlain was blasted in some of the matches it could be some issues with his form in that particular series. Mind you, Ws were not playing in that series and lot of burden on Saqlain that might have added to the pressure. But, coming back to the original thread, Tendulkar was a little arrogant in going after Saqlain from the first ball and that brought down his downfall, thats why I said "Hey Teedna! watchout, Saqi is not Warne!"

Ya saqlain troubled sachin,but he also got the better of him in some matches as i pointed out.And yes i accept the fact,sachin was not comfortable facing off spinners,and in fact he also gets out to a lot of newbies who come to the scene,but when he faces them more he manages to do better.

saqlain is no doubt a world class spinner,no arguments on that.

[asian123]

Originally Posted by SG How could he be? Warne is arguably the best ever spinner to grace the game, while Saqlain is probably not even in the top-10 spinners of all time. And if you didn't notice Warne was a leggie while Saqlain bowled off spin.

Originally Posted by SG In no particular order, Warne, Murali, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Bedi, Benaud, Chandra, O' Reilly, Gupte, Grimmett

These are easily the worst 2 posts that i have ever read on PP. Pathetic

Originally Posted by Inzy's Aloo a biased person, asking someone else to explain the essence of bias. Then I guess we can't mess with your opinion of bias! ODI's are also cricket, did you forget that? Or does it hurt that much that Saqlain had phenomenal ODI stats? Btw, Keep your cool, no need to label anyone a 'nobody'. Sir Gary the gentleman would not be very happy with you! Yeh I agree its been quite funny Easy now! we're not all ancient fossil's who seen the great Clarrie Grimmett bowl! If Saqlain is "nowhere near the top 10 spinners" i'd like to know which spinners are? Oh dear! looks like somebody has completely lost it You've just summed up yourself perfectly, admire your honesty sir

POTW

[Passion4Pakistan]

Originally Posted by wasi90lk he could have surpassed wasim akram and become the highest wicket taker in ODI. a talent wasted, for sure.

To become leading LOI wicket taker, he had to pass Muralidharan.

But, He would already pass Murali by now if he was consistently playing for Pakistan..

I have no Idea Why This Genius Cricketing Country wasted such a talent..

[kkmix]

Originally Posted by Inzy's Aloo a biased person, asking someone else to explain the essence of bias. Then I guess we can't mess with your opinion of bias! ODI's are also cricket, did you forget that? Or does it hurt that much that Saqlain had phenomenal ODI stats? Btw, Keep your cool, no need to label anyone a 'nobody'. Sir Gary the gentleman would not be very happy with you! Yeh I agree its been quite funny Easy now! we're not all ancient fossil's who seen the great Clarrie Grimmett bowl! If Saqlain is "nowhere near the top 10 spinners" i'd like to know which spinners are? Oh dear! looks like somebody has completely lost it You've just summed up yourself perfectly, admire your honesty sir

lol I defeated each and every point of his ... and sent him back to school to learn the true meaning of the word bias ... hopefully he returns with some sensibility.

[LethalSami]

i wanna see the DNA test results to rele kno if Saqlain was not Warne...

[SG]

[QUOTE=Inzy's Aloo;3992527]

ODI's are also cricket, did you forget that? Or does it hurt that much that Saqlain had phenomenal ODI stats?

At least, read the OP before bursting. It was specifically about tests. As someone pointed out in ODIs, Tendulkar has outsmarted Saqlain quite a few times.

Btw, Keep your cool, no need to label anyone a 'nobody'. Sir Gary the gentleman would not be very happy with you!

In the scheme of things, the gentleman whom I termed as a nobody remains as such.

Yeh I agree its been quite funny

Indeed. To term Saqlain is 3rd best test spinner of all times. It indeed is extremely funny.

Easy now! we're not all ancient fossil's who seen the great Clarrie Grimmett bowl!

I guess you're not as much ancient to be a contemporary of Don Bradman. Then why do you hold him as best ever batsman?

If Saqlain is "nowhere near the top 10 spinners" i'd like to know which spinners are?

As I said, at least read the full thread before posting.

Oh dear! looks like somebody has completely lost it

Repeating a thing twice won't make it anymore relevant. In fact, it makes it irrelevant.

You've just summed up yourself perfectly, admire your honesty sir

Unlike you, I won't summarize you like that.

[SG]

Originally Posted by asian123 These are easily the worst 2 posts that i have ever read on PP. Pathetic

Yep, to term Warne and Murali as 2 best ever spinners is worst in your eyes. And that Warne was a leggie while Saqlain was an offie. Gotta say you got to get your eyes checked.

However knowing who your idol is, its not too difficult to pity you.

[SG]

a poster called SG is shutting out Saqlian saying that he was a very good ODI bowler but not test bowler,

I always say Saqlain was exceptionally good in ODIs, I've mentioned that in this thread as well. Does anyone need to say more?

And show me where I said he was not a test bowler.

[SG]

But, coming back to the original thread, Tendulkar was a little arrogant in going after Saqlain from the first ball and that brought down his downfall, thats why I said "Hey Teedna! watchout, Saqi is not Warne!"

Point taken. He was definitely got beaten by a very well disguised doosra.

[SG]

Originally Posted by 90MPH What a joke - Only an Indian poster (i.e. SC) would say Saqlain is not in the top 10 spin bowlers of all time. In his prime he was unbelievable (95-99) - In many games he would bowl right at the death of 50 over cricket for Pakistan. Lets not forget it was Saqlain was the inventor of the doosra, and he disguised it very well - did not spin as much but his arm was straight as a whistle compared to the jerky actions you have today who bowl the doosra (Harbajhan, Ajmal, Botha). However I agree with many here he should have achieved much more, though he did suffer horrible knee injuries - after that he simply became a shadow of himself.

If only prime of a cricketer extends for his entire career.

And dare I say, only Pak fans would term Saqlain as 3rd best spinner ever in the history of the game?

[Saqs]

Why is it that Sachin is used as the benchmark to judge spinners?

I don't understand this. He is not the only wicket that is of importance. Just because someone has taken a bucketload of wickets, yet has not troubled Sachin, does not mean they are not a good bowler. Would that mean Saeed Ajmal is a better ODI spinner than Warne, Murali and Saqlain because he happened to trouble Sachin?

Saqlain was brilliant, and in an era that saw off-spin reduced to simple roll of the arm bowling, he, along with Murali and Harbajhan helped revive the art.

But, I don't think Saqlain was the best spinner we produced. That honor must go to Abdul Qadir.

If anything, Qadir is under-rated by many if you consider how little people know of him and his influence on Warne.

Regardless, I would put Warne and Murali a lot higher than the rest of the spinners.

Qadir must make any list of top 10 spinners in my opinion, and so should Saqlain (albeit with a disclaimer seeing as though his career was cut short by a combination of poor selection and injuries).

(Off-spinner vs Leg-spinner argument aside) - there are things Saqlain did with the ball that Warne couldn't dream of - and vice-versa.

But to each their opinion I guess.