Saudi to non-Muslims: Respect fast or be expelled

[Javelin]

When I worked in Saudi many years ago, as a Muslim my working hours were officially reduced to 6 hours per day, whilst my non-Muslim colleagues were still expected to do 8 hours.

Furthermore, most offices, shops and shopping centres closed during the day and remained open at night. Saudi's slept during the day and did their daily work/shopping at night.

Thus the whole point of the month of Ramadan was left meaningless by the Saudi's.

[lahori]

Originally Posted by Javelin When I worked in Saudi many years ago, as a Muslim my working hours were officially reduced to 6 hours per day, whilst my non-Muslim colleagues were still expected to do 8 hours. Furthermore, most offices, shops and shopping centres closed during the day and remained open at night. Saudi's slept during the day and did their daily work/shopping at night. Thus the whole point of the month of Ramadan was left meaningless by the Saudi's.

I used to do that when I was in college AND while on my winter holidays. Back then I slept during the day and awake at night. Those were by far my most easiest fasts ever. Funny I didnt know that this is the norm in Saudi. Talk about making it easy for oneself! kind of defeats the purpose doesnt it?

[Bewal Express]

About 4 yrs ago i returned to work in Sept after the holidays and there was coffee and cakes laid on for the staff but i along with a lady colleague were fasting. I wasn`t tempted to break my fast, i wasn`t offended and in many ways it felt like a test of my faith.

[srh]

Originally Posted by insaan @Amoeba. I agree that SA has the right to make laws it deems suitable, and non Muslims should respect the culture of the land. But do you think eating or drinking(water) in front of a Muslim is disrespectful to his faith? I have Muslim colleagues and I take my lunch in front of them. I wonder if that is disrespectful? And isn't fasting during Ramadan is to attain piety, develop compassion for others, and be tested etc. So doesn't this rule goes against that spirit?

yes it is disrespectful. Muslims should go outside or some other place in office while you are eating. Or you can go eat in the kitchen where muslims should not be coming.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by srh yes it is disrespectful. Muslims should go outside or some other place in office while you are eating. Or you can go eat in the kitchen where muslims should not be coming.

I wouldn't say it's disrespectful as the non-muslim won't be aware that it's a hardship for someone who's fasting. At least the Saudis have given their non-mulim citizens some advance warning to be sensitive albeit in their own typically crass way ironically.

[srh]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat I wouldn't say it's disrespectful as the non-muslim won't be aware that it's a hardship for someone who's fasting. At least the Saudis have given their non-mulim citizens some advance warning to be sensitive albeit in their own typically crass way ironically.

He (insaan) was talking about his muslim colleagues so I assume he already knows they are fasting. If he does not know then yeah its not disrespectful.

[zzebie]

Originally Posted by insaan @Amoeba. I agree that SA has the right to make laws it deems suitable, and non Muslims should respect the culture of the land. But do you think eating or drinking(water) in front of a Muslim is disrespectful to his faith? I have Muslim colleagues and I take my lunch in front of them. I wonder if that is disrespectful? And isn't fasting during Ramadan is to attain piety, develop compassion for others, and be tested etc. So doesn't this rule goes against that spirit?

I don't think it's disrespectful.But,I myself do not eat in front of a person fasting(Hindu or Muslim). It's more like being understanding of their endeavor.

[insaan]

Originally Posted by srh He (insaan) was talking about his muslim colleagues so I assume he already knows they are fasting. If he does not know then yeah its not disrespectful.

Maybe it depends on the person. Yes, I am aware that they are fasting and have greeted them during the beginning of Ramadan. Never thought it would be disrespectful to eat in front of them (although I eat very quietly). I am sure if I ask them, they will be embarrassed and say it is not a problem at all. Nevertheless, if it is seen disrespectful, I will take care of that from today.

[Indiafan]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Good..damn straight..i dont agree with alot the saudis do but in this case their damn right..oh look its an indian op with a problem..what is it with indians and this kind of thing? First we had that awful alchohol thread now this..acha nahi lagta tu ticket kutao or delhi vapus jao!! Thoro si shurum kuro..beshurum loag!!

Yet you are the same guy who has problems when muslims join in diwali celebrations in India, etc. Of course some Indians have problems with this as you guys are the first one to point out when muslims are in any way 'percieved' to be forced to do anything in India. Whether its joining in religious celebrations, making sure beef is not eaten in some places, etc. But in those cases, its the muslims being persecuted and never hindus being damn right. That there is hypocrisy

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Senman sure. The news is from Associated press agency unless they are biased the source shouldn't matter, moreover its a statement from interior ministry and not some investigative report. http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/sa...xpelled-245921 http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-warns-no...113843285.html http://abcnews.go.com/International/...madan-16818745 http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-...lled-1.1051760 @the Great Khan Look you can agree or disagree with the news, me being Indian has no bearing on this issue.

with all due respect you being indian and non muslim has everything to do with this..its disgraceful!!

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Indiafan Yet you are the same guy who has problems when muslims join in diwali celebrations in India, etc. Of course some Indians have problems with this as you guys are the first one to point out when muslims are in any way 'percieved' to be forced to do anything in India. Whether its joining in religious celebrations, making sure beef is not eaten in some places, etc. But in those cases, its the muslims being persecuted and never hindus being damn right. That there is hypocrisy

Lol..typical response..if india was a hindu country and yu did the above i would ask the muslims to stop complaining and move..but yu say yu are a secular nation yet then discriminate etc, that my friend is trie hypocrisy..

The saudis are a muslim majority monarchy..wver non muslim knows this when they go to make money there..when this same monarchy enforces a law that yu may not agree with i suggest yu do the same..the saudis are what it says on the tin...

I dont understand why indian hindus are coming on hear complaining about this..do yu want to eat in public in a muslim majoroty country..beshurmi ki inti hha hoti hay..

[withlovefrom vizag]

more appropriate rule wud be dont resort to non muslim prayers/activities in public,but this rule is just funny

[Senman]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan with all due respect you being indian and non muslim has everything to do with this..its disgraceful!!

Ok so only Muslims can raise this issue? or do you think this issue shouldn't be raised at all?

[Bangla Tiger]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC It's not their country, Saudi family came into power with the assistance of the British and have continued their rule with the assistance and backing of the American military machine + oil. They are the temporary dictators of the land. These jokers are missing the whole point of fasting. How can any Muslims be offended by someone eating or drinking? lol I'm sure the Prophet(pbuh) wasn't worried when Christians or Jews eat or drank in Ramadan around him. The sooner this family is removed from Arabia, the better for the Muslim world.

I was about to say that they have the right to make up whatever laws they want [within reason and as long as it doesn't harm someone else] just like any other country...but this post is spot on.

[Indiafan]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Lol..typical response..if india was a hindu country and yu did the above i would ask the muslims to stop complaining and move..but yu say yu are a secular nation yet then discriminate etc, that my friend is trie hypocrisy.. The saudis are a muslim majority monarchy..wver non muslim knows this when they go to make money there..when this same monarchy enforces a law that yu may not agree with i suggest yu do the same..the saudis are what it says on the tin... I dont understand why indian hindus are coming on hear complaining about this..do yu want to eat in public in a muslim majoroty country..beshurmi ki inti hha hoti hay..

No, no, its doesnt work that way. Indian country, Indian laws. We can declare ourselves secular, monarchy, whatever the heck we like and you would not have any rights to comment if 'Indians' cannot comment on things in Saudi

Plus all the immigrants and generations of muslims living in Europe should get out of there fast if they dont like laws banning scarfs, hijabs etc. Yet you have no qualms debating their laws, eh?

Some muslims are hypocrites of the highest categories. They are the first ones to take to arms if they feel muslim rights are being trampled anywhere in the world, but for the same guys non muslims have rights worse than slaves, and they can be treated like sub-humans in muslim dominated countries just because these countries are muslim dominated. Even a cartoon against Islam in a far away land can invite death threats, but taking away the right of another guy to eat in public is completely ok. In their own countries they can declare other communities as non-muslims, destroy their mosques yet if an 500 year old mosque is destroyed in another country, or when a majority religion in another country wants to make beef eating illegal, they are being opressive?! Wah re wah

Same guys cry for rights when they are in the minority, yet same guys acts like tyrants when in the majority. Whats more surprising is that these guys are incapable of seeing their own double standards. As if declaring a country secular or relgious changes even human-rights issue. And because of these handful of muslims, Islam comes across as rigid and hateful

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Indiafan No, no, its doesnt work that way. Indian country, Indian laws. We can declare ourselves secular, monarchy, whatever the heck we like and you would not have any rights to comment if 'Indians' cannot comment on things in Saudi as usual you chaps seem to have a switch that goes off whenever anyone comes out and says it like it is! lets see now, you are a declared secular democracy hence a Muslim who feels he is not being given the same rights as another citizen in a secular country has the right to object, but thats not the point of this thread. Indians who know its ramadhan and then post threads criticsing decision by A Muslim Monrachy that has no reason to listen to anyone should keep their council considering the cotnext! Plus all the immigrants and generations of muslims living in Europe should get out of there fast if they dont like laws banning scarfs, hijabs etc. Yet you have no qualms debating their laws, eh? Lol..pathetic..i mean really pathetic..this isnt even worth a response but thank you, your post is proving my point as I continue forth! Some muslims are hypocrites of the highest categories. They are the first ones to take to arms if they feel muslim rights are being trampled anywhere in the world, but for the same guys non muslims have rights worse than slaves, and they can be treated like sub-humans in muslim dominated countries just because these countries are muslim dominated. Even a cartoon against Islam in a far away land can invite death threats, but taking away the right of another guy to eat in public is completely ok. In their own countries they can declare other communities as non-muslims, destroy their mosques yet if an 500 year old mosque is destroyed in another country, or when a majority religion in another country wants to make beef eating illegal, they are being opressive?! Wah re wah once again thank you for declaring your prejudice. Have you got your brown chudis washed and cleaned? another idotic rant that isnt worth responding to because its as usual missing the point but thats part of the course with our band of maerry warriors of bharat!! Same guys cry for rights when they are in the minority, yet same guys acts like tyrants when in the majority. Whats more surprising is that these guys are incapable of seeing their own double standards. As if declaring a country secular or relgious changes even human-rights issue. And because of these handful of muslims, Islam comes across as rigid and hateful An indian talking about Human rights lol..thats a new one..!!

Now then thanks you for revealing your prejudices in this lovely rant above, that was very enlightening and actually proves my point.

but coming onto the post and the thread. Now ill expalin this so you can understand,

firstly: the saudis and Muslim should not have to apologise for their stance. They are simply asking non muslims to respect Muslims right to endure a problem free fast. It is a Muslim majority country and has the right to do, It is also a monarchy so isnt a democracy and hence can pretty much do as it wants. Like I said befoe I dont agree with alot of there policies but this w=one is the right one. If non muslims cant have the deceny to respect this one particular issu well then it says alot about the non muslims , just as your rant above says alot about you!

secondly: france and otehr western country's are declare liberal democracy's and that brings with it certain caveats. e.g. protection of minority rights and freedom of religion hence why Muslims like to live there as our rights are at times disregrarded in our own country's or in country's like India(that says one thing and does another). As a result as being a citizen of said democracy, the said citizen has the right to criticise the system if it goes agains its own rules/laws etc. That is also a right given to a citizen by the democracy. Hence why again many muslims live in these countrys as that priveledge is denied to them in many Muslim countrys.

Finally, my issue is to do with the poster who posted this(troll), he posted it to get a rise out of Muslims who are fasting, he knew we are fasting and was trying to be smart, hence is trolling.

so to conclude why did he post this now? what was the purpose of it? simple it was to ignite controversy in a Holy month when we are fasting (and tempers run a bit short), it shows a lack of respect for this forum, for the many muslims who are fasting(but then you care little for this as can be evidenced from your prejudiced post above)

and also a big thanks to you for really revealing how you feel. If only more of your indian compatriots did the same instead of putting up this aman ki asha ka charade!!

[Senman]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Now then thanks you for revealing your prejudices in this lovely rant above, that was very enlightening and actually proves my point. but coming onto the post and the thread. Now ill expalin this so you can understand, firstly: the saudis and Muslim should not have to apologise for their stance. They are simply asking non muslims to respect Muslims right to endure a problem free fast. It is a Muslim majority country and has the right to do, It is also a monarchy so isnt a democracy and hence can pretty much do as it wants. Like I said befoe I dont agree with alot of there policies but this w=one is the right one. If non muslims cant have the deceny to respect this one particular issu well then it says alot about the non muslims , just as your rant above says alot about you! secondly: france and otehr western country's are declare liberal democracy's and that brings with it certain caveats. e.g. protection of minority rights and freedom of religion hence why Muslims like to live there as our rights are at times disregrarded in our own country's or in country's like India(that says one thing and does another). As a result as being a citizen of said democracy, the said citizen has the right to criticise the system if it goes agains its own rules/laws etc. That is also a right given to a citizen by the democracy. Hence why again many muslims live in these countrys as that priveledge is denied to them in many Muslim countrys. Finally, my issue is to do with the poster who posted this(troll), he posted it to get a rise out of Muslims who are fasting, he knew we are fasting and was trying to be smart, hence is trolling. so to conclude why did he post this now? what was the purpose of it? simple it was to ignite controversy in a Holy month when we are fasting (and tempers run a bit short), it shows a lack of respect for this forum, for the many muslims who are fasting(but then you care little for this as can be evidenced from your prejudiced post above) and also a big thanks to you for really revealing how you feel. If only more of your indian compatriots did the same instead of putting up this aman ki asha ka charade!!

Wow talk about paranoia.

Anyway whatever reply I can give will be lost as you have branded me a Muslim hater but I will try my level best.

Firstly the post is not against Muslims but Saudi government and in your burninggg hatred for everything Indian and Hindu you are failing to see that.

Secondly my OP is based on a statement from interior ministry of Saudi Arabia and not some investigative report, so I am not cooking a controversy merely posting what I find unfathomable.

Thirdly if you feel offended by me or any Indians posting in this forum, well we can't do nothing about it this is a public forum, either you ignore us or give suggestions to administration team in banning Indian or Hindus (whoever you feel more hatred towards).

Fourthly I find the notion lack of respect is simply idiotic, have I abused anyone in this thread?

Fifthly you need to see a Shrink ASAP.

[Inziquicksingle]

As a Muslim who fasts, I think this is a really unnecessary, intolerant and ridiculous law that only accomplishes making life difficult for those who don't observe the fast. To me it makes absolutely no difference seeing someone eat while I'm fasting. And even if it did it would be a part of the fast. The entire point of fasting is to experience a little bit of hardship.

And others agreeing with this law should not complain when the (secular) country they live in passes intolerant laws which make it difficult for the Muslim community residing there.

[Hasan]

A religion based on respect and tolerance of people of other faiths and view turned on its head by a petrodollar funded cult (salafies/wahabies).

This cult has very little to do with Islam except the fact that they have imposed themselves over the birth place of Islam. There is nothing in the quran or hadith that says that a muslims can be removed from the country/city if he or she eats in front of muslims who are fasting. These cult make things up in the same of Islam and morons all round the world believe it to be a Islam.

[cricketjoshila]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Lol..typical response..if india was a hindu country and yu did the above i would ask the muslims to stop complaining and move..but yu say yu are a secular nation yet then discriminate etc, that my friend is trie hypocrisy.. The saudis are a muslim majority monarchy..wver non muslim knows this when they go to make money there..when this same monarchy enforces a law that yu may not agree with i suggest yu do the same..the saudis are what it says on the tin... I dont understand why indian hindus are coming on hear complaining about this..do yu want to eat in public in a muslim majoroty country..beshurmi ki inti hha hoti hay..

Indian country Indian Law.If anyone doesnt like it he can leave.If a la is there it has to be followed no matter what your religion says about it.Thats secularism.

[Looney]

Lol , too hardline but their country , their laws . If you have a problem , don`t go .

[violet_may]

Originally Posted by Amoeba Did I say I personally was offended? But it is common courtesy in probably all muslim countries that those not fasting, for whatever reason, do not eat in front of those that are. In fact to be honest most people would feel uncomfortable to eat in those circumstances anyway. Most non-fasting muslims do not eat in front of those who are, and many non-muslims voluntarily display such mutual courtesy as well in both east and west. So I think this is just an annual request to aid understanding amongst non muslims but the esteemed Seattle Times and some Indians here have deliberately blown it completely out of proportion.

Oh my bad, I thought that because you were defending the Saudis in this matter, that you perhaps agreed with their stance.

Anyway, I am all for happy, lovey dovey, compassionate pleas to respect people who are fasting, but threatening to expel individuals who eat in front of those fasting doesn't exactly fall under a 'request'.

Now this rule/request, it doesn't make any logical sense. But hey, it's Saudi Arabia.

[Looney]

If Saudi Arabia stopped being Saudi Arabia , which other country would make us feel better about Pakistan ?

[violet_may]

That's a good point.

If someone mentions an issue with Pakistan...

'Hey, guess what those crazy Saudis are up to...'

[chacha kashmiri]

It's a probly to stop any libyan/egyptian eque revolution

and also comparabl with 'these moslems have changed christmas to xmas and we can't put no trees up nomo'

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Looney If Saudi Arabia stopped being Saudi Arabia , which other country would make us feel better about Pakistan ?

ahaahahaha.

[Cricketismylife]

Pak sounds far better that SA. For every KKWC there is a MOMO and KingUsama. lol

[PakPrince]

The Saudis has as much right of kicking the non Muslims out as the Dutch have of banning halal meat or other Western nations have of discriminating against Muslims

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by cricketjoshila Indian country Indian Law.If anyone doesnt like it he can leave.If a la is there it has to be followed no matter what your religion says about it.Thats secularism.

A resounding endorsement of the Saudi approach even if it wasn't intended.

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Senman Wow talk about paranoia. Anyway whatever reply I can give will be lost as you have branded me a Muslim hater but I will try my level best. Firstly the post is not against Muslims but Saudi government and in your burninggg hatred for everything Indian and Hindu you are failing to see that. Secondly my OP is based on a statement from interior ministry of Saudi Arabia and not some investigative report, so I am not cooking a controversy merely posting what I find unfathomable. Thirdly if you feel offended by me or any Indians posting in this forum, well we can't do nothing about it this is a public forum, either you ignore us or give suggestions to administration team in banning Indian or Hindus (whoever you feel more hatred towards). Fourthly I find the notion lack of respect is simply idiotic, have I abused anyone in this thread? Fifthly you need to see a Shrink ASAP.

yawn, excuses, your agenda is clear from the range of posts you have posted. I will not comment further on the above. i have made it clear. Your agenda is clear.

The nature, tone and purpose of your posts points to the above.

as for me being a rabid anti Indian Hindu hater, lol. I will refrain from even bothering to speak further against such blatant slander!

[Senman]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan yawn, excuses, your agenda is clear from the range of posts you have posted. I will not comment further on the above. i have made it clear. Your agenda is clear. The nature, tone and purpose of your posts points to the above. as for me being a rabid anti Indian Hindu hater, lol. I will refrain from even bothering to speak further against such blatant slander!

Well its upto other users then, they can see your posts and mine and will be able to judge who is abusing a particular religion and who is not.

Please refrain from speaking further as you quoted as I only see blame game from you without substance.

[Markhor]

Let me get this straight - A European country bans the burqa - the reaction is usually 'how dare they ?!'

Saudi Arabia makes a law discriminating against non-Muslim minorities - 'their country, their laws'.

A lot of hypocrisy on here.

People who are saying 'If you don't like the law, leave the country' - if every person in a country had to leave that place because they disagreed with government policy, there would hardly be anyone in that country left !

[Singham]

They can have rules like this and the foreigners would abide this law until all the oil resources run out. Without oil Saudi is nothing more than a damn desert.

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Inziquicksingle As a Muslim who fasts, I think this is a really unnecessary, intolerant and ridiculous law that only accomplishes making life difficult for those who don't observe the fast. To me it makes absolutely no difference seeing someone eat while I'm fasting. And even if it did it would be a part of the fast. The entire point of fasting is to experience a little bit of hardship. And others agreeing with this law should not complain when the (secular) country they live in passes intolerant laws which make it difficult for the Muslim community residing there.

Ok look at it from their point of view. they have a majority Muslim "conservative" population that fasts. Do they really want to be seen to be encouraging eating and drinking by Non Muslims while a Muslim is fasting? Would you not find it insulting that you are making an effort to fast yet as a "conservative" Muslim living in your own "conservative" country you have a non Muslim eating a burger or curry etc right in front of you? surely a majority Muslim conservative country has as much right to demand certain laws within its borders as secualr liberal country's do?


Now for those who say "well you shouldnt complain if a secular country passes a law that bans the hijab etc" erm do you not see the irony there? A secular liberal democracy champions freedom of religion and enshrines anti discrimination practices within the law of the land. Hence if a law is brought that contradicts that premise surely it is hypocrisy? then one shouldnt claim to be a liberal democracy? One should claim to be a conservative monarchy like the saudi's or a dictatorship like Libya was and so forth.

people are complaining about this law(even if it is not clear whetehr it is merely a suggestion or is actually a lwas yet) and about a country that is a conservative monrachy. If they were a liberal democracy then yes everyone would rightly be up in arms about the hypocrisy, but alas there is no hypocrisy here. the country is what it says on the tin. So for example if india were to turn around and claim it is a country that is a Hindu country for Hindus first before anyone else and they ban all forms of cow slaughter etc would you move there for work and then complain when they stop you from eating beef??

On a personal level I agree with the law but would not like to see it applied in Pakistan or any other Muslim country. The govt should actually give out a guidance to non Muslims that they should not eat and drink in public during ramadhan and respect the feeling s of the majority population.

As a Muslim i am obliged to obey the law of the land or leave if Im not happy with it. For example I disagree with some British laws but I do not break them as I havea duty as a Muslim to be law abiding etc. The same should apply to non muslims in Muslim countries. (oh unless your an Indian then it seems you should be able to do whatever you want)

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Senman Well its upto other users then, they can see your posts and mine and will be able to judge who is abusing a particular religion and who is not. Please refrain from speaking further as you quoted as I only see blame game from you without substance.

yes sir I will refrain from speaking or great one. The arrogance is palpable.

[the Great Khan]

Originally Posted by Markhor Let me get this straight - A European country bans the burqa - the reaction is usually 'how dare they ?!' Saudi Arabia makes a law discriminating against non-Muslim minorities - 'their country, their laws'. A lot of hypocrisy on here. People who are saying 'If you don't like the law, leave the country' - if every person in a country had to leave that place because they disagreed with government policy, there would hardly be anyone in that country left !

see above post by me. The saudis are a nation that discriminate as a rule. the nation is called "Saudi" arabia , the title says it all. Why would any non muslim go and work their and not expect draconian impositions? and then they complain? its ludicrous!

[Markhor]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan see above post by me. The saudis are a nation that discriminate as a rule. the nation is called "Saudi" arabia , the title says it all. Why would any non muslim go and work their and not expect draconian impositions? and then they complain? its ludicrous!

There are basic human rights, and basic levels of human decency which are universally accepted such as treating workers fairly, without discrimination on the basis of race and religion.

One of these basic rights are the right to eat and drink - and a non-Muslim should not be living in the fear that if they are eating and drinking in public, that country's religious police will deport them.

Another human right is the right for a worker to work and to seek employment anywhere in the world - if a non-Muslim wants to work in Saudi Arabia, fine - that worker is providing services on behalf of their employer and that country - who in return should expect, quite rightly, to be paid fairly by their boss, and to be treated fairly by the government of that country - such as being allowed to eat and to drink in public.

These 'draconian impositions' should not be implemented in the first place.

If someone if eating and drinking right in someone's face, in a provocative manner then of course that constitutes 'disrespectful' behaviour.

But this law that is being implemented is vague - what constitutes disrespectful behaviour ?

If a non-Muslim is eating on a park bench, and a Muslim who is fasting walks past - and gets offended, then should that non-Muslim be deported ?

It is very difficult to trust the Saudi Arabian religious police to implement this law fairly, they are blinded by fundamentalism and is yet another example of how this country's government is not fit to run Islam's most sacred religious sites.

[Alam_dar]

I really wonder why to ban others to eat like their daily routine?
If you are fasting, that is fine. It is between you and Allah.... but why put restrictions upon the other people?

Here in the WEST we Muslims do fast and there is absolutely no problem when non Muslims eat like do in normal days. So what is the problem in Muslim countries that all others stop eating drinking?

[Alam_dar]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Ok look at it from their point of view. they have a majority Muslim "conservative" population that fasts. Do they really want to be seen to be encouraging eating and drinking by Non Muslims while a Muslim is fasting? Would you not find it insulting that you are making an effort to fast yet as a "conservative" Muslim living in your own "conservative" country you have a non Muslim eating a burger or curry etc right in front of you? surely a majority Muslim conservative country has as much right to demand certain laws within its borders as secualr liberal country's do? Now for those who say "well you shouldnt complain if a secular country passes a law that bans the hijab etc" erm do you not see the irony there? A secular liberal democracy champions freedom of religion and enshrines anti discrimination practices within the law of the land. Hence if a law is brought that contradicts that premise surely it is hypocrisy? then one shouldnt claim to be a liberal democracy? One should claim to be a conservative monarchy like the saudi's or a dictatorship like Libya was and so forth. people are complaining about this law(even if it is not clear whetehr it is merely a suggestion or is actually a lwas yet) and about a country that is a conservative monrachy. If they were a liberal democracy then yes everyone would rightly be up in arms about the hypocrisy, but alas there is no hypocrisy here. the country is what it says on the tin. So for example if india were to turn around and claim it is a country that is a Hindu country for Hindus first before anyone else and they ban all forms of cow slaughter etc would you move there for work and then complain when they stop you from eating beef?? On a personal level I agree with the law but would not like to see it applied in Pakistan or any other Muslim country. The govt should actually give out a guidance to non Muslims that they should not eat and drink in public during ramadhan and respect the feeling s of the majority population. As a Muslim i am obliged to obey the law of the land or leave if Im not happy with it. For example I disagree with some British laws but I do not break them as I havea duty as a Muslim to be law abiding etc. The same should apply to non muslims in Muslim countries. (oh unless your an Indian then it seems you should be able to do whatever you want)

Sir, your whole DEFENCE is based upon your argument that since Saudia is a Conservative country, therefore it is allowed to have any law it likes. But WEST is democratic, therefore they are not allowed to have any law against Muslims.

Your argument is very weak unfortunately and it would not work.

We are living in a World which is connected to each other. You could not have one rule for you and second for the other in name of Democracy and Conservative.

[BD-fan]

Originally Posted by Senman ... This is totally wrong, how can they force religious customs onto people of other faiths?

Can you be a little clear on what are they forcing other people to do? Are they ordered to fast? Was their rights to eat and drink taken away?

[BD-fan]

Originally Posted by Alam_dar I really wonder why to ban others to eat like their daily routine?

You are putting words on mouth that has not been spoken. Noone banned non-muslims from eating. They can still eat to their hearts content. They can pigout in Saudi Arabian soil. Just not in public. Banning means you cannot do that specific thing. They (all non-muslims) can still eat and drink.

And yes, in States, those who have some decency and knows another person beside his cubical is fasting, avoid eating at their desk. They are much more tolerant and understanding.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by BD-fan Can you be a little clear on what are they forcing other people to do? Are they ordered to fast? Was their rights to eat and drink taken away?

Saudi Government took the rights of Christians, Hindus and people of other faiths to eat or drink in public during fasting hours. Why I find it unfathomable is because these are not implemented in other Muslim countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia so I find Saudi Arabia insecure.

[Senman]

What I don't understand is how a OP which shows Saudi Arabia in poor light earned me Anti Muslim/Anti-Pakistan tag? most of the PP posters are staying in Saudi or what?

[Invictus]

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Ok look at it from their point of view. they have a majority Muslim "conservative" population that fasts. Do they really want to be seen to be encouraging eating and drinking by Non Muslims while a Muslim is fasting? Would you not find it insulting that you are making an effort to fast yet as a "conservative" Muslim living in your own "conservative" country you have a non Muslim eating a burger or curry etc right in front of you? surely a majority Muslim conservative country has as much right to demand certain laws within its borders as secualr liberal country's do?

What ? So let me get this straight if lets say in the Vatican city ban halal meat sales in the city or the burqa to show respect to the christian residents of the city would that be fine with you ?
What difference does it make if its muslim majority or atheist majority country if someone wants to eat in public ? How is it disrespectful to you if someone decides to eat ? I don't get that logic ? If someone is eating its usually because they are hungry or like what is in-front of them. It has nothing to do with you. They could care less if you are fasting or not. It's not anyone else's job to make your fast easy. That defeats the whole purpose of it.
Do you show "respect" to your hindu\jewish colleagues when they fast on their specific days by not eating in front of them ? Would you like it if laws were passed about you getting deported from England if you happen to eat a sandwich on a specific day of the year in public ?

Originally Posted by the Great Khan Now for those who say "well you shouldnt complain if a secular country passes a law that bans the hijab etc" erm do you not see the irony there? A secular liberal democracy champions freedom of religion and enshrines anti discrimination practices within the law of the land. Hence if a law is brought that contradicts that premise surely it is hypocrisy? then one shouldnt claim to be a liberal democracy? One should claim to be a conservative monarchy like the saudi's or a dictatorship like Libya was and so forth.

Again what ? Doesn't matter what label one puts on the form of government everyone has basic human rights.
Doesn't the religion of Islam champions basic rights for humans ? So shouldn't a muslim majority country not allow basic civil human rights, like the right to freaking eat in public, to its none muslim citizens ?
And who the hell cares how one labels themselves. If I call country A dictatorship does that mean that the head of state can go out and ban people eating in public and that should be acceptable ? But if country B that labels itself a democratic republic do it that's a big No you know because they label themselves different ? That doesn't sound crazy to you ?

Originally Posted by the Great Khan people are complaining about this law(even if it is not clear whetehr it is merely a suggestion or is actually a lwas yet) and about a country that is a conservative monrachy. If they were a liberal democracy then yes everyone would rightly be up in arms about the hypocrisy, but alas there is no hypocrisy here. the country is what it says on the tin. So for example if india were to turn around and claim it is a country that is a Hindu country for Hindus first before anyone else and they ban all forms of cow slaughter etc would you move there for work and then complain when they stop you from eating beef??

Chacha have you been to Saudi Arabia ? They have full blown out colonies near oil fields for you know none-brown ex-pats that sell alcohol and pretty much are cities with-in cities where no Saudi laws are enforced..
These laws are basically for the local poor immigrant. Even lets say this law is equally enforced you see no problem with a country deporting people that eat in public for a month ? Honestly form of government has nothing to do with it neither does the majority religion, the idea that your state can stop you from eating in public and that is being accepted by you is frankly absurd.

Originally Posted by the Great Khan On a personal level I agree with the law but would not like to see it applied in Pakistan or any other Muslim country. The govt should actually give out a guidance to non Muslims that they should not eat and drink in public during ramadhan and respect the feeling s of the majority population.

Honestly ? really your feelings get hurt if someone eats in front of you in Ramazan ?
Do you extend this courtesy to people of other faiths ? and if so how ?

Originally Posted by the Great Khan As a Muslim i am obliged to obey the law of the land or leave if Im not happy with it. For example I disagree with some British laws but I do not break them as I havea duty as a Muslim to be law abiding etc. The same should apply to non muslims in Muslim countries. (oh unless your an Indian then it seems you should be able to do whatever you want)

None-muslims have no obligation to follow muslim laws you know since they are not muslims.
Secondly these laws are not divine scriptures. Stupid laws should not be obeyed and every effort should be made to change them. If my government tomorrow decides that everyone should grow a mustache then rest assured I wont grow one.

[QazzarFan]

Yes it's downright pathetic for Saudi Arabia to enforce this on non muslims. Yes it reflects great sense of insecurity but as a non muslim you should be well aware that you're giving up your rights and freedom to live a comfortable lifestyle and earn a living in the Kingdom which practices the stringent custom version of Islam. I mean you should be well aware when it comes to civil rights, Saudi Arabia lags behind even some of the African countries. This country forbade women from participating in Olympics until few months ago and doesn't even offer basic liberty to their own women and one expecting exceptions for non muslims? ha!

[Geordie Ahmed]

I agree with Amoeba with regards to asking why this is really news worthy? It appears to be Daily Mail-esque style of reporting, this guidline/rule* has been in place for years and is written in the contracts of workers so they are fully aware of the situation


*Having said that I don't really see why this is written into a contract, non-muslims should be allowed to eat/drink freely BUT there is no harm in letting them know about Ramadan and how it would be a bit more sensible to avoid eating/drinking in public if possible

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Cricketismylife Pak sounds far better that SA. For every KKWC there is a MOMO and KingUsama. lol

Apologies KKWC in this thread I meant thegreatkhan.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What I don't understand is why is everyone getting so wound up over this? Saudi Arabia is meant to be a conservative, restrictive society where we in the west are constantly berating them for the medieval way of life they follow.

So if it's offensive, why don't the foreign work forces tell them to stick their laws and their tax free salaries where the sun don't shine and go home? Were they taken to Saudi Arabia forcibly on slave boats?

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed *Having said that I don't really see why this is written into a contract, non-muslims should be allowed to eat/drink freely BUT there is no harm in letting them know about Ramadan and how it would be a bit more sensible to avoid eating/drinking in public if possible

Exactly!

For Most ppl - telling them politely would have been enough. Then why use the stick of the law to force it. Or else .....

Also telling everyone is important though coz its different under different faiths/cultures. E.g. For indians I have seen some go attend weddings/parties without eating anything throughout if they are fasting. Its common for people to fast on different days throughout the year for hindus so ppl are eating around the ones fasting most of the times. It's a cultural thing.

If faith is strong enough one doesnt need to force the environment for ones ease.

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Saudi Arabia is meant to be a conservative, restrictive society where we in the west are constantly berating them for the medieval way of life they follow.

that was the reason behind this thread.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Cricketismylife that was the reason behind this thread.

Yes that was the not so subtle point I was making. Unless we superior folk can point out how ignorant Saudis are, what's the point of being enlightened?

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Unless we superior folk can point out how ignorant Saudis are, what's the point of being enlightened?

Time pass forums, where world issues are resolved one avatar at a time

[Zaz]

Theres always people eating around me at work and occasionally forgetting im fasting and offering me cakes and tea etc I never feel offended or tempted

If im easily tempted then the problem is with me and my iman not the other way round

[Inziquicksingle]

Just fyi the same rule is being enforced in the UAE, which isnt a hardline conservative Islamic country. You can be fined if caught eating in public during the day. Ridiculous.

[Alam_dar]

Followed the same discussion at this link.
Summary is:
1) Prophet pbuh never declared any law or punishment for non Muslims who ate in the public during Ramazan period.
2) It is newly created Innovation, known as Bidah to punish the non Muslims in this way.
3) A smaller punishment like fine of 50-100 Euros may be enough if you at every cost want to introduce this Bidah. While expelling some one from the country is a very big wild punishment for such thing.