Wasim Bari: The Exclusive Interview

PakPassion.Net: How did you get into cricket? Was it a childhood obsession or did you fall into it because of your natural talent?

Wasim Bari: As you know, cricket has always been a passion in Pakistan. I followed cricket even in the 1950s and 60s. I always went with my father to watch Test matches in Karachi and I've always wanted to be a cricketer. That was my dream.

I was studying in Public School and my teacher asked what I wanted to become. I said “a cricketer” and the class laughed because at the time I wasn’t even in the school team.

So I always had a passion to be a cricketer.

My favourite cricketer in those early days was Imtiaz Ahmad (a wicket keeper batsman). I had no idea at the time I would one day play for Pakistan. That came thanks to dedication, hard work, discipline and talent.

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PakPassion.Net: As a ‘Glovesman’ you were probably one of the top 3 wicketkeepers of all time – How would you like to be remembered?

Wasim Bari: My greatest moment was when I wore the green Pakistani cap for the first time at Lords v England in 1967 – it was a passion and honour to represent your country. The game wasn’t as commercial as it is now. I’ll always cherish the moment. My first test victim was Colin Milburn, the wicket came early and calmed my nerves. When you get your first victim you get relaxed.

So that was a very happy moment for me.!

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PakPassion.Net: You were known for your ‘Strong Legs’ as a keeper – what exercises did you do help you ‘pounce’? 

Wasim Bari: The only thing that's better in the game today are the fitness levels of the players. When I was young I read a book by the great Godfrey Evans (England wicket keeper) who said that wicket keepers ‘were born, not made’. So you have got to be a natural wicket keeper. Of course you have got to work really hard and you have to love your job. You’ve got to have natural ability as well as learn from your own experiences and watching others.

I also played squash everyday and that helped to keep me fit and improve my reflexes and co-ordination. I also used to ‘skip’ a lot to strengthen my legs.

I played every game as if it was my first game. I worked very hard and concentrated throughout every game, I took the games ‘session by session’. I was the only keeper in the team and the team depended on me.

When I was a young player, I never forget the advice of an ex-player, Maqsood Ahmad who said that 30 minutes before lunch, 30 minutes before tea and 30 minutes before the close of play is when everybody is tired and that’s when you’ll get a chance from the batsman. That is when you should concentrate. 

I was always willing to learn. 

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PakPassion.Net: Who would you say was the Hardest Bowler you had to keep to?

Wasim Bari: Imran was a very difficult bowler because of his big inswinging deliveries. It was always a challenge.

Then there were Intikhab Alam and Abdul Qadir. I used to practice hard with Abdul Qadir in the nets – for hours and hours, working on his different deliveries so that I could get used to the different angles.

There is no substitution for hard work. It still applies today. If you look at Glen Macgrath, he practices for hours hitting the same spot, time and time again.

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PakPassion.Net: What advice would you give to Kamran Akmal?

Wasim Bari: Follow the basics! He was not keeping his eye on the ball, especially as the ball moves a lot in England.

So, focus on the ball and don’t snatch! He should let the ball come to him. Also he doesn’t use his feet a lot.

I gave him a few suggestions on keeping to spinners whilst we were in South Africa.

You have got to have a hunger, love playing the game and have ambition and goals. You’ve got to keep on watching and learning and adjusting– not get too tense! I used to love keeping, and would get a special feeling when I put on my keeping gloves.

So you have to do love what you do if you want to do it well, otherwise you won’t excel. I always want to pass on whatever I know. 

You’ve got to want to get better and better. You don’t want to remain stationary in one spot. I was never satisfied with taking 2 dismissals, I wanted 4 or 5!

First I wanted to play cricket for Pakistan, then I wanted to be a regular, then I wanted to be into the top 3, and then I wanted to break world records!

All these were my goals and ambitions.

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PakPassion.Net: What do you feel are the ‘Key Attributes’ of a National Selector?

Wasim Bari: Communication! 

I like consensus. I like to support the captain and coach. It has been my strength. I like to take advice and I don’t make decisions in isolation.

A selector should be able to work with the coach and captain, I like to meet them and brief them.

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PakPassion.Net: As a selector how many domestic matches did you watch?

Wasim Bari: We have a system at the start of the season, all senior and junior selectors make up a schedule of games to watch.

I would watch the KEY matches. It is not possible to see all matches.

We would share the games amongst 7 selectors (3 senior/4 junior) to cover more matches. But I could focus on the key matches (for example – I would go and see Shoaib Akhtar bowl or if I wanted to see one or two openers, or if I wanted to I would go and watch Salman Butt bat)

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PakPassion.Net: Do you have any Scouts within the structure?

Wasim Bari: No we don’t but I have always advocated that we should! There is a ‘circle of cricket’ that the selection committee cannot cover. Scouts could cover matches below the first class level and that would be very beneficial to help spot talent.

I am in touch with the coaches of domestic cricket and a report is sent to us after each match with any special performers being mentioned.

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PakPassion.Net: You have a full time job with PCB, and a full time job with PIA. How do you manage to do justice to two full time jobs? Do you believe the selection committee should be paid so that they don’t have to juggle two careers?

Wasim Bari: It all depends on how an individual manages. For example, the present Chairman of Selectors, Mr Sallahudin Ahmad has previously combined the role of chief selector whilst he was a full time permanent employee within PIA (although he is no longer with PIA). The ex Director of Cricket Operations Mr Salim Altaf has been a Chairman of the selection committee whilst he was a full time employee of PIA as well.

So what I am saying is that in present cricket, the way cricket is today, a full-time selector would be better.

I have my own opinion on how cricket should be run and the way we do it in Pakistan is not the way it should be done! I believe it should be more corporate i.e. run as a business requiring a business plan and management at the top level and grassroots level. The strength of a cricket organisation is its cricket system.

The Australian, South African, Indian and English cricket boards are all run like proper businesses. In England, each County side has its own business plan!

I think is the only way we can get results – you will not get results if you don’t run it like a corporate institution. The days of having 'constitutions’ was fine 50 years back but not today.

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PakPassion.Net: Despite Pakistan having large Black and Chinese minorities why have we never seen a player (to my knowledge) from these ethnicities selected to play for Pakistan? Is it due to some inherent bias in the whole system or is there not enough interest in cricket in their regional areas? Eg players like Shahid Qambrani.

Wasim Bari: I’ve heard a lot about him, he is a good player and my selectors have mentioned him several times.

I can tell you from experience that we normally try to select the best side to represent Pakistan. 

Even at a lower level of domestic cricket, we would not overlook any such cricketers. I get input from all the selectors and coaches so nothing like that should happen. We are very open.

We may make a mistake (anybody can make a mistake) but its easy after the event to say ‘why didn’t you pick Salman Butt or Imran Farhat’!

We don’t ignore players with Merit.

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PakPassion.Net: Do you think that the existing selection system allows you to ensure that there is ‘transparency’ in your selection?

Wasim Bari: For example the squad that was selected for the world cup, you may have those that ask ‘why didn’t you select Farhat or Butt’ but the captain wanted consistency. He thought he would take a gamble with Imran Nazir. 

In the end it was a ‘consensus’ decision. I had a choice, either I go against the captain or support the captain. There were so many crisis within Pakistani cricket at the time, it was not the time to create a new crisis!

So the selectors decided to support the captain.

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PakPassion.Net: Chief Selectors have always announced the team in a Press Conference. What was the reason for you not making the announcement of the World Cup squad yourself?

Wasim Bari: I was in South Africa and we were supposed to finalise the squad – whilst I was there I watched the ODI matches.

Once I finalised the squad, I sent it to the ‘boss’ because there was a deadline that had to be met.

So the announcement was made from Pakistan. In the past I’ve given many Press Conferences and I always give interviews. I never say no to interviews to the press and I'm quite relaxed about answering any questions.

I enjoyed giving interviews, it was part of the job to be accessible to the press.

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PakPassion.Net: So many of our players ‘broke down’ in South Africa (some after passing fitness tests). What fitness tests are carried out on players?

Wasim Bari: In regards to Shoaib Akhtar, sometimes the selection committee has got to take a ‘risk’. 

We had the lost the first test match and it was obvious that Mohammad Asif was not getting the support from the other end. We had not selected Shoaib in the original tour party because we felt that he needed more match practice. But we felt we had to take a risk with Shoaib because he had played a couple of warm-up matches. 

The captain wanted Shabbir Ahmad for the 3rd test especially with Shoaib and Umar Gul unfit.

Shabbir told Inzaman that he was fit, but actually he was NOT fit and therefore any misunderstanding was created by Shabbir Ahmad himself. Inzamam had spoken to him and Shabbir said he was fit, whilst we knew he was not fit and had not played any cricket for 2-3 weeks. That led to misunderstanding and that’s why we didn’t send him for the 3rd test. We knew that he was unfit.

Sometimes it happens, but the fitness levels of the Pakistani team are not up to standard, they have to improve their fitness levels. 

It comes back to the ‘cricket systems’ that I mentioned earlier. If you take Australia. The same facilities are available to players at club level, first class level and through to International level. So their cricketers know what to do when they come into test cricket. They know what levels of fitness are required, they know what mental levels are required and they know what role they have to play. 

Whereas in Pakistan, this is not the case with our system. When our players come into test cricket, they are in trouble!

So we need the same facilities for club and first class level as we do at international level so that our cricketers are more mature and physically fit when they are selected to play for their country.

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PakPassion.Net: Are there any ‘genuine’ 90mph+ bowlers in domestic cricket who have not yet played for Pakistan?

Wasim Bari: I don’t think so, we have bowlers close to 85-86mph. We are struggling because cricket at the grassroots is not there, the school cricket is not there, the club cricket is not there, the college cricket is not there.

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PakPassion.Net: What happened to the ‘Pepsi Pace’ competition Winners?

Wasim Bari: Speed is not just the only thing in bowling! If you have a good line & length or you bowl swing then you can be as equally as effective.

Mohammad Asif’s strength is his line and length and he’s just as dangerous as Shoaib Akhtar.

Umar Gul is a much improved bowler. He moves the ball so we have bowlers coming through.

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PakPassion.Net: In 2004, Mohammad Sami was regularly bowling at over 95mph but then he slowed down his run-up and now he’s struggling. Who asked him to cut his pace down?

Wasim Bari: Coaching is not my area, but cricket is a game of confidence and about how much confidence a captain has in a player. If a captain has confidence, the player’s capabilities and performance gets better.

Unfortunately, I don’t believe Inzamam had enough confidence in Sami but he’s a talented cricketer and he’s still young.

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PakPassion.Net: What were the reasons for selecting Danish Kaneria for the World Cup squad when he had only played in 16 ODIs before his selection (with an average of 12 wkts at 50).

Wasim Bari: Although some of the grounds and wickets were new, we always felt that a quality spinner could be used as a weapon on a particular surface. A captain should have his options. 

Inzamam was never a fan of a leg spinner in ODIs. But we thought that the West Indies pitches would support quality leg spinners and we saw that quality spinners were quite effective on some pitches.

Bangladesh had 3 spinners, Vettori was quite successful and Patel was quite successful too.

So it all depends on the surface you play on and the opposition you play against.

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PakPassion.Net: If Kaneria was going to be sent to the World Cup, why wasn’t he involved in any of the ODI games (v South Africa)? 

Wasim Bari: Inzamam is not a great supporter of playing legspin bowling in ODI matches. The wickets in South Africa were totally different. They were bouncy wickets that supported seam bowling BUT then we convinced him (Inzi) that he should have an option in his hand when he goes to the West Indies because the climate is different. It would be hot, so we should have that option and Kaneria is a quality bowler. Yes it would have been better if he had played more ODI games.

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PakPassion.Net: A lot of people believe Salman Butt is a better option that Hafeez and Farhat. Why was he dropped after a couple of failures?

Wasim Bari: Well he went to England and wasn’t successful at all and then he failed to get runs against India on tour, so he had 2 series where he lost a lot of confidence and as I said earlier, this is a game of confidence.

Farhat got runs and Hafeez went on the ‘A’ tour to Australia where he scored heavily and when he was brought into the team, he got runs and he bowled as well.

Farhat and Hafeez gave us a solid start, probably the best start of the series. So Salman Butt was ‘forced’ to be a lower priority than Farhat and Hafeez and the advantage of Hafeez was in ODIs because he could also bowl. Even in South Africa when he bowled he bowled quite handily. He was a useful cricketer for the ODIs.

So that was the only reason Butt was dropped.

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PakPassion.Net: Since Shahid Afridi returned to test matches in 2005, he has averaged 43 with the bat, and 30 with the ball (one of our best performers with bat and ball), so why does he keep being dropped from the test team when he fails in the ODI team?

Wasim Bari: Nobody would question his all-round abilities. He’s a useful fielder, bowler and batsman and on some tracks (in India and Pakistan) he can also open the batting and give you an advantage with the way he plays.

So he has a huge advantage in ODI cricket, you always have to have 6 bowlers in the ODI game (you cant rely on 5). 

With Afridi, his runs were scored in the subcontinent. He gets a lot of runs against India and on flat wickets.

In test matches, he comes in at number 6. In England, Abdul Razzaq used to get into the test team ahead of Afridi because of his seam bowling and there was also competition from Shoaib Malik for the No.6 slot. Malik is also a good cricketer, Razzaq is also a good cricketer when he’s in form and obviously we could not open with Shahid Afridi in English conditions/wickets.

So I think because of playing a seamer over a spinner, Razzaq usually gets the nod over Afridi.

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PakPassion.Net: Players like Mohammad Sami, Imran Farhat and Yasir Hameed keep making the same mistakes over and over again and keep getting re-selected. Why?

Wasim Bari: I tend to agree with you. When they score runs in domestic cricket on different wickets and are in form, you have to give them a chance. If you list the top opening performers in domestic cricket you will see the same names: Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Salman Butt and Hafeez.

So in this area we are struggling and there was a thought to make somebody open who was not an opener (eg Shoaib Malik). And then we had a system whereby the final XI was the domain of the captain & coach (not the selection committee), we had no say in the final XI. We only had a say in the 15 or 16 man squad (That system has now changed)

So the final decision was with the coach & captain based on the planning strategy for a particular match.

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PakPassion.Net: Pakistan have won the last 2 Under 19 World Cups, yet none of these players have been selected for the first team. Why?

Wasim Bari: You have to bring in players that are mature. For example, you have Hasan Raza who was a very good player but he was selected too early and he didn’t mature.

Also, Pakistan was on a winning streak at the time, so when you are winning, you want to keep your combinations together.

There are many cricketers that played only 1-2 matches in their career because they were brought in too early and then were never heard of again!

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PakPassion.Net: As the Chief of Selectors for the ‘A’ team, what is your vision for them?

Wasim Bari: We have a very good vision for the Pakistani ‘A’ team model, all cricketing nations are following it.

The players that are in the ‘A’ team will play for the Pakistan (senior) team in the future. It is very important for countries such as Pakistan where our domestic structure is not of a good standard and they do not have the intensity of competition.

It is very important for Pakistan to have a good ‘A’ team.

Players like Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Hafeez, Misbah, Abdul Rehman, Zulqarnain all came from the ‘A’ Team.

We do have some older players in the ‘A’ team like Misbah, who has been unfortunate as he has not been able to break the dominance of Inzaman, Yousuf, Younis Khan etc. Also, Faisal Iqbal has also been unlucky.

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PakPassion.Net: Fawad Alam – are you aware of him and how long will it be before he makes his debut?

Wasim Bari: He is a good player, we sent him with the ‘A ‘ team to Australia which is where he was spotted. We got a very good report about him. He is a very level headed player. He’s a smart cricketer. We have already spotted him, that’s why we sent him to Australia.

I think he’s got a chance now to get into the team (to make his international debut).

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PakPassion.Net: What about Anwar Ali from the Under 19s….

Wasim Bari: We know him! He’s a good bowler, he’s a medium pacer. We know all these bowlers, he uses the new ball well.

But he is slower than Shahid Nazir. He swings the ball well but bowlers like him will have a better chance if they become allrounders, if they can bat a bit or field well.

Fielding is very important. We need players of this type. 

You're either like Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib or Mohammad Asif. Otherwise if you are a medium pacer, I will prefer if you could perform dual jobs.

Anwar Ali cannot come into the team only as a bowler (at test level).

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PakPassion.Net: What’s happening with Jamshed Ahmad (under 19s)?

Wasim Bari: He’s a left arm bowler who uses the ball well. He’s a good bowler and we know of him because my colleague selector Iqbal Qasim was the chairman of the junior selection team, so we keep communicating and talking about him. We follow their performances. The junior selection committee picked him.

He’s a promising lad.

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PakPassion.Net: In the 2004 under 19 World Cup, we had a bowler Tariq Mahmood. His action was changed. What happened to him?

Wasim Bari: He had a problem regarding his action. He modified his action, but he was not the same performer in domestic cricket after that. He went to Bangladesh where he got a lot of wickets, and initially he was very promising. But after his modified action he wasn’t the same bowler.

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PakPassion.Net: Mansoor Amjad – he is playing for Leicestershire, where he is batting but NOT bowling. Why?

Wasim Bari: Good bowler!

He has had a finger problem for the last one season. I used to follow his progress and treatment because I thought he had a huge potential. 

He injured his finger and couldn’t bowl. He was under treatment for a very long time. We wanted to him play against the West Indies in 2006. And everyone thought well of him. A very good batsman and fielder. Bowling was not his strength. 

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PakPassion.Net: Last year we heard a ‘rumour’ about a fast bowler called Tanveer Zeeshan. Any news on him?

Wasim Bari: Yes! A fast bowler! My fellow selector Ehtesham told me that he still requires a bit more experience of domestic cricket. We normally like a player to have at least 1-2 years of domestic experience before we really consider him.

He doesn’t bowl anything like 90mph, nobody is close to 90mph at the moment. He is promising. We have good prospects in bowling. 

All these name you have taken are promising bowlers but where we are struggling in with our batting and lack of quality spinner.

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PakPassion.Net: What about Imad Waseem, he’s in the current Under 19 team as a promising spinner / allrounder. Would he be a good choice?

Wasim Bari: First I would say that these under 19s should be given more time in domestic first class cricket, where their performances should be monitored and encouraged before being brought into international cricket.

I do not support players coming in straight from under 19s into international cricket, they should play at least a couple of years of domestic cricket first.

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PakPassion.Net: After the 2003 World Cup, Aamir Sohail made some ‘tough’ decisions by dropping Saeed Anwar, Waqar, Wasim & Saqlain. Do you think any BIG names will be dropped after this World Cup (2007)?

Wasim Bari: Well I think they’ve made the right move by appointing a young captain and now they should select a good team around him. He must have the full support of the players. One of the reasons that Younis Khan did not accept the captaincy was because of lack of support of all the players.

Unless Malik has the support of all the players, he’ll have a tough ride. Now it is up to them (the new selectors) to build a team around the captain.

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PakPassion.Net: You were the Chief Selector until the end of the World Cup – and then you resigned. Why did you resign?

Wasim Bari: There are 2 reasons:

Number one; my term was over. 

Number two; when the team doesn’t do well, you ‘ve got to share the responsibility. I think you’ve got to morally share the responsibility.

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PakPassion.Net: Who would be your tip for the NEXT Pakistani coach (if you could chose ANY coach in the world)?

Wasim Bari: Well its up to the board but I think a coach that can communicate, a coach that can manage and a coach that can plan.

You see all the successful coaches are foreign coaches (Moody / Whatmore for example). All top coaches are foreigners! 

I would prefer coaches like Moody or Whatmore who have worked with subcontinent teams and know the culture, the mentality and the mental levels. So they’ll have an advantage over those coaches that haven’t worked with these teams.

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PakPassion.Net: Who are the 5 players we should look out for in the future?

Wasim Bari: -Fawad Alam - left handed batsman
-Sarfraz Ahmed - wicketkeeper batsman
-Mansoor Amjad - legspinning all-rounder
-Jamshed Ahmad - left arm swing bowler
-Abdul Rauf - medium pace bowler

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PakPassion.Net: How about Players like Shahid Yousuf?

Wasim Bari: I thought he was potentially good, but players like Shahid Yousuf don’t play ‘smart’ cricket. I also think Imran Nazir also has a tremendous talent but he has no discipline. In the same way Shahid Yousuf is very talented too.

He went to England. We sent him because of his potential. But 40s and 50s and those kind of runs are not enough. They need centuries and big scores.

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PakPassion.Net: Do you have any messages for the members of PakPassion.Net?

Wasim Bari: I think young cricketers need to work hard and play ‘smart cricket’. Be disciplined and always try to learn at any stage of their career because you NEVER stop learning in cricket. And that is the way to improve.